FR Podcast is up

[Bishmon]

Given that they really only have 2 settings at this point... what is actually using the PoL concept?

The implied setting.

 

[Khairn]

The implied setting.

The implied setting is PoL, and let's not forget FR. My assumption is that the "shoe horn" comment was made in answer to the worries that WotC would force PoL on every setting, just as it did to FR.

 

[Zamkaizer]

Forgotten Realms has already had so many things shoe-horned into it, there was plenty of space left in it's distended, corpulent bulk for points of light tropes.

 

[Arnwyn]

*Red Wizards are led by Zsass (sp? that lich guy). They're scarier and so is Thay. The enclave Red Wizards are unwelcome expatriates who can't return home.

The only good FR "change" (actually, it's a "fix") in 4e. Boy, that enclave idea in 3e was phenominally stupid (and a quick boo! and thumbs down to those who supported that change). Nice to see they're going back to the 1e/2e (read: proper) Red Wizards.

 

[JohnSnow]

Well, after listening to the Podcast, I found myself thinking "Hmm...I may actually give the new Realms a look."

And this is from a guy who gave up on them ages ago. There are parts I like, and parts I hate. I loved the original grey box, but just about everything since has been kinda downhill (although the elves and dwarves no longer being in decline is kinda cool).

There were moments during the podcast where I actually thought I might end up running a Realms campaign, rather than just straight homebrewing. Because it sounds like the new FR might be the perfect mix of civilization and savagery that makes for good gaming.

But in reality, I'll probably just homebrew and mine the Realms for ideas. I was already planning to partially swipe the geography of the Sea of Fallen Stars for my planned seafaring campaign.

 

[Sammael]

The only good FR "change" (actually, it's a "fix") in 4e. Boy, that enclave idea in 3e was phenominally stupid (and a quick boo! and thumbs down to those who supported that change). Nice to see they're going back to the 1e/2e (read: proper) Red Wizards.

Really? So, turning Thay into Mordor and Szass Tam into Sauron is better than trying to explore a credible economic impact of magic items on the local economies? 3E changed Red Wizards into interesting villains and potential allies instead of "scary wizard guys in red" which they've always been in previous editions. What next? Will they bring Myrkul (the generic eeeeevil death god) back instead of the much more interesting Kelemvor/Velsharoon dychotomy?

 

[Arnwyn]

Really?

Yes, really. To put it in internet terms: 1e/2e Red Wizards > 3e Red Wizards.

3E changed Red Wizards into interesting villains and potential allies

Not AFAIC.

 

[PeterWeller]

Wow! I feel so important now.

Anyways, as far as the Red Wizards are concerned, I think the 3E developments really neutered them as a villain group. The enclaves were an interesting concept, and they did a good job of explaining the ease with which one could buy and sell magic items in 3E, but the whole thing made the Red Wizards seem much less sinister and mysterious.

One should remember that they specifically mentioned the enclave Red Wizards are still around. They aren't affiliated with the nation, Thay, anymore, and in fact they're now even more useful and interesting as villains and allies as they still (presumably) do what they did in 3E, but now you have all sorts of potential for stuff like the various European governments-in-exile that existed during WW2 and expatriates with nothing left to lose.

Just as the design goals for Eberron (when it won the setting contest) were that the setting had to be able to include everything that was part of D&D, FR now has to include everything that is part of 4E. So since the game designers created a new version of the Dragonborn race, the FR setting team now had to justify a way to make it fit in FR.

To be fair, this was always a design goal of the Forgotten Realms. It was very explicit during the 2E era that anything in D&D could be in or accessed from the Realms.

And the comment that "If you are an old player, all that stuff on your shelf is still pertinent" made me chuckle. In the start of the podcast they talk about how everything is changed, brand new and mysterious ... then claim that the stuff on your shelf is pertinent.

It wasn't ret-conned out of existence. There is at least one functioning Time Portal in the Realms circa 4E. Everything that happened in previous editions still happened and still laid the foundation for the 4E world. Therefor, all that stuff on your shelf is still pertinent.

The implied setting is PoL, and let's not forget FR. My assumption is that the "shoe horn" comment was made in answer to the worries that WotC would force PoL on every setting, just as it did to FR.

"Shoe horn" was my words, and the comment I was paraphrasing was in regards to FR. They said (I'm paraphrasing from memory) that they didn't set out to force the Realms into a PoL dynamic. They noted how the Realms was characterized by a number of large, ancient, civilized and interconnected regions. They wanted to reduce this somewhat, but they didn't set out to totally clean the slate and make the setting PoL, just a little bit more PoL. From what we've heard, I feel that they were successful in this goal.

 

[OgreBane99]

Really? So, turning Thay into Mordor and Szass Tam into Sauron is better than trying to explore a credible economic impact of magic items on the local economies? 3E changed Red Wizards into interesting villains and potential allies instead of "scary wizard guys in red" which they've always been in previous editions. What next? Will they bring Myrkul (the generic eeeeevil death god) back instead of the much more interesting Kelemvor/Velsharoon dychotomy?

Amen.

 

[Faraer]

To be fair, this was always a design goal of the Forgotten Realms. It was very explicit during the 2E era that anything in D&D could be in or accessed from the Realms.

In Realms-2008 the setting is being bent and selectively replaced without question to accommodate every rules element, when before TSR compromised, only sometimes using the Realms as a dumping ground, at others letting it be itself. There's a clear shift from the previous approaches, where the 2E and 3E rulesets were seen as imperfect lenses. That language has gone.

Therefor, all that stuff on your shelf is still pertinent.

We've been told that it isn't necessary now, without it being explained how it ever was, that the setting is being simplified to put newcomers on an even plane with veterans, and that past lore is still relevant. But not how all this will be done.

They wanted to reduce this somewhat, but they didn't set out to totally clean the slate and make the setting PoL, just a little bit more PoL.

Rich Baker explained months ago that the Realms was being piecemeal, not wholesale PoLized. Of course large regions of Faerûn are already that way.