FR: What's up with Lolth? (Spoilers, please)

[Mystery Man]

The entire FR design team would beg to differ. Your definition of "Chosen" apparently differs from theirs.

Besides, where did you get the info that the other gods' Chosen aren't carrying around bits of their patron deities?

A quote from Ed Greenwood himself Sammael:

"While I’m at it, let me reiterate: Mystra is the most powerful deity of the Faerunian pantheon, by virtue of the fact that Toril is so overwhelmingly governed, sourced, and powered by magic. (If Ao the Overgod exists, Ao is for purposes of this argument “more” than a deity.) This is why Mystra’s power (the silver fire) is divided up among many mortals: her Chosen. The “Chosen” of Mystra are different than the “Chosen” of other deities (who tend to be champions, advocates, servitors, and so on, who if they have any of the direct power of the deity, are lent it by the deity in a manner quite different from Mystra’s probably-unwilling sharing).

There are other Chosen of Mystra besides her willing servants (Elminster, Khelben, and the Seven), many of them as yet unidentified in Realmslore. All of them serve Mystra in their own ways.
The precise nature of what it is to be a Chosen of Mystra still hasn’t been fully revealed, and is too vast and complicated to be easily expressed in terms of prestige classes or other rules forms and details. On the other hand, mortals can never perfectly understand the gods, because mortals can only see things with mortal perceptions and senses."

 

[diaglo]

The only true chosen are that of Mystra, all others are pale comparisons?

A.

rats. you beat me to it... i was at lunch.

 

[diaglo]

Works for halflings, who are usually Neutral and yet their primary deity (Yondalla) is Lawful Good.

which also harkens back to how they didn't convert well from previous editions.


Halflings aka Hobbits were Lawful in OD&D
converted to Lawful Good in 1edADnD

 

[drnuncheon]

If he's denying involvement, then why is his name stamped on every book? And that he did an "intro" to each novel? Haven't heard that myself.

He's probably denying involvement so he doesn't have to answer bizarre nitpicky fanboy questions, like "How can House Baenrae have two hundred solders to devote to this assault when it clearly stated on page 214 of Homeland that they had reduced their fighting forces..."

J

 

[Darkness]

Now, I'm not going to argue for or against calling other deities' "Chosen," "Chosen;" I just want to comment on something.

The other "chosen" is a misnomer

He said, and went on to post a quote of Ed Greenwood calling them the same thing as those of Mystra. Now that's comedy.

 

[Psion]

That's YOUR opinion.

Are you sure about that?

In mine, she and number of GH/FR deities need to take a flying leap into the River Styx and die. Orcus is da'man and while Kiaranselee might have been elevated, she's not going to stay that way for long, especially now that Lolth is back.

The Lolth-fiend's back
and you're gonna be in trouble
hey na, hey na
the Lolth-fiend's back

 

[Mystery Man]

He said, and went on to post a quote of Ed Greenwood calling them the same thing as those of Mystra. Now that's comedy.

I've got your "comedy" right here buddy.

Perhaps I chose the wrong word, but you get my drift? Pick up what I'm putting down? Smelling what I'm stepping in?

 

[Sammael]

A quote from Ed Greenwood himself Sammael:

<quote snipped>

I have several problems with that quote.

First, I have no idea when the quote was made, or in what context. Tons of previous material were invalidated with the 3E FRCS, so if this was before that, it is arguable whether it still holds or not.

Second, it is common knowledge that Ed's own FR no longer has any resemblance to the FR published by WotC (and TSR before it). So, Ed may be completely right in the context of his own FR, but not the one published by WotC.

Third, and am loath to do this since I absolutely hate Faiths and Pantheons, Mystra is officially less powerful than Chauntea, equal in power to Shar, Silvanus, and Tyr, and only marginally more powerful than other greater deities. This alone invalidates Ed's quote in the context of 3.x FR. You could argue that Mystra's Chosen are what drive her rank down, but that cannot be divined from her... stats. Yes, stats. Yuk.

 

[Mystery Man]

<quote snipped>

I have several problems with that quote.

First, I have no idea when the quote was made, or in what context. Tons of previous material were invalidated with the 3E FRCS, so if this was before that, it is arguable whether it still holds or not.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/kuje/

You can find it that 2004 document. It's massive! But it's in there, along with some other pretty insightful things about the Chosen of Mystra. You get the impression that its a pretty harsh lifestyle. Something that the setting and sourcebooks really don't convey.

Second, it is common knowledge that Ed's own FR no longer has any resemblance to the FR published by WotC (and TSR before it). So, Ed may be completely right in the context of his own FR, but not the one published by WotC.

Anything that Ed puts down in writing and makes public is considered canon. Written across the universe with a godlike indelable pencil canon. And you can verify that with whomever you wish if you don't believe me.

Third, and am loath to do this since I absolutely hate Faiths and Pantheons, Mystra is officially less powerful than Chauntea, equal in power to Shar, Silvanus, and Tyr, and only marginally more powerful than other greater deities. This alone invalidates Ed's quote in the context of 3.x FR. You could argue that Mystra's Chosen are what drive her rank down, but that cannot be divined from her... stats. Yes, stats. Yuk.

Anything put down in 3.x trumps anything from previous editions. Bothersome and sometimes confusing but if you're a canon fanatic that's how it is.

 

[Darkness]

I've got your "comedy" right here buddy.

Anything that Ed puts down in writing and makes public is considered canon. Written across the universe with a godlike indelable pencil canon. And you can verify that with whomever you wish if you don't believe me.

Yeah. AFAIK, unless WotC overrules it, Ed's word should be considered canon.

Anyway. Chosen, schmosen. hong's second law of fantasy solves this question easily. (edit - For me, that is. You can of course feel free to discuss it further if you want.)