freak'in wealth system

[0-hr]

Thanks for the help all. I read the bullet points and everything I could find in the book before posting - I just still couldn't figure it out.

But anyway, here's a bonus questions (since this first one was answered so well):

- - -

I've created an adventure with 17 encounters. The average EL is 3.8 (though they range from 1 to 9). What should the wealth reward (or dollar value!) for this be according to the book?


Using the text above table 7-3, I came up with either $640 or well over 12 million dollars. Neither is really acceptable for a 5th level adventure. :\

 

[DMScott]

I've created an adventure with 17 encounters. The average EL is 3.8 (though they range from 1 to 9). What should the wealth reward (or dollar value!) for this be according to the book?

If I'm ballparking it correctly, that should be a total EL of around 12 or 13, so a wealth bonus of +15 or +16, which is a purchase DC of 25 or 26. Which in cash value is $9000-$12000. Whether that's appropriate probably depends on the style of game more than anything else - if that's supposed to be the take from shaking down a drug lord, it's probably too low. OTOH, if it's the bonus a group of cops get for overtime while working on busting the drug lord, it's probably about right or even a little high. PC wealth isn't the same sort of critical balancing factor in d20 Modern as it is in D&D, so varying rewards to fit the style of adventure is OK.

 

[Morgenstern]

OMG. You people are serious, aren't you?

 

[Turanil]

This is a d20 Modern game set in contemporary earth, right?

I would just point that: if the PCs go to the bank with 50,000 $ in small unmarked bills, they are liable for some problems with the authorities.

 

[Olive]

OMG. You people are serious, aren't you?

Your point?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

This is a d20 Modern game set in contemporary earth, right?

I would just point that: if the PCs go to the bank with 50,000 $ in small unmarked bills, they are liable for some problems with the authorities.

Thus, at least I've always felt, the logic of using the system like you're SELLING the money: I.E. you don't get the full, pristine Wealth Bonus Value for a particular amount of money.

It's an abstract system, so I've always felt that money should apply a little more abstractly.

OMG. You people are serious, aren't you?

Yes? Your sig identifies you as a writer for Eberron ... which means you work with RPGs, right? What, exactly, are you incredulous about? That there's an argument about semantics with RPG rules? That somebody posted a long example of how to perform the requested operation? Or that it might take 2-3 steps to render dollars in and out of an abstracted monetary system?

All things considered, even with the occassional moment of calculation, I much prefer Wealth to anything else.

--fje

 

[0-hr]

If I'm ballparking it correctly, that should be a total EL of around 12 or 13,

Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. When I total up the individual EL's, I get 66.

(the numbers are 7 1 2 4 2 4 1 3 4 4 1 4 3 6 8 4 9 if that helps).

 

[DMScott]

Maybe that's where I'm going wrong. When I total up the individual EL's, I get 66.

(the numbers are 7 1 2 4 2 4 1 3 4 4 1 4 3 6 8 4 9 if that helps).

Ah, OK. I believe when the book says "Compute an encounter level for the reward using the CRs from all the associated encounters", they mean to use the "Determining Encounter Levels" section on pgs 205-207, rather than just adding them together. In particular, the "Total Challenge Rating" section starting at the bottom of page 206 shows how multiple CRs (and ELs) accumulate. So the six EL 4 encounters, for example, accumulate to EL 10 rather than EL 24.

You could add those up any of a number of ways, and probably get slightly different results. Since table 7-6 groups "6 or more" into a single category, what you might want to do is average the first six and calculate EL, then the next six, then the last five. Then average those together for the final result. By doing that I get:

1st 6: (7+1+2+4+2+4)/6 is an average EL of 3 (since you round down), six EL 3 encounters are EL 9.
2nd 6: (1+3+4+4+1+4)/6 is an average EL of 2, six EL 2 encounters are EL 8.
Final group of 5: (3+6+8+4+9)/5 is an average EL of 6, six EL 6 encounters are EL 12.

I would be inclined to give awards based on these three sets, I think - if you average them down to a single value, it also comes out EL 12, which might not seem fair. Whichever way you go, you can then go back to 204 and finish the calculations. It might be an interesting exercise to calculate for each encounter separately and see how that compares to the totalling ELs method.

 

[Morgenstern]

Your point?

I guess beyond the curious fact that once your wealth level hits a certain threshold you can buy an infinite number of sleeping bags, but selling an infine number of sleeping bags doesn't grant you any spending money, I hadn't really followed the intricacies of the d20 Modern wealth system. Yes, I am a little surprised that the rule book doesn't make the impact of piles of money clear, requiring the use of one of several possible interpretations.

Question. Does getting a suitcase full of money constitue a one-time bonus to a future wealth check, a permanent change in finacial status, or some sort of staggered drop over time? It seems odd that a really poor person finding a hundred dolar bill (or three, just go with it a moment) will have their wealth rating raises permanently... So it begs the question of how a singular windfall is going to change a more wealthy character's rating permanently.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

One of my big complaints about d20M is that they didn't make the Wealth system a little more transparent. The tables are on opposite sides of the book and various rules for it are found scattered all about ... and they pretty much totally ignore the effect of finding "cash".

I don't think a sack of cash should apply all to one future purchase (I'll buy that ferarri ... with cash!) and I see no reason to adjudicate it as some staggered drop over time ... THAT is what a "permanent" wealth bonus represents ... because the Wealth bonus decreases with various purchases made.

A really poor person finding three hundred dollars might have their Wealth raised by 1 ... from +0 to +1 ... and if they buy anything of DC 2+ their wealth goes back down ... so it doesn't raise permanently. A wealthy person getting an increase from an influx of cash could find himself with more liquid funds (the cash) supplementing his more fixed investments, re-invest it, etc.

In the end I say that the Wealth system models real world finances more successfully because it DOESN'T matter. There are just too many variables. I buy a car online, with an employee family discount from the company, using inheritance money I'd invested in Microsoft stock that I liquidated right before the price dropped by seven points or I buy a car right off the lot with a sack full of 100s I found in a drug dealer's trunk. In the game ... same difference. Doesn't matter. And that's closer to the real thing than any amount of book-keeping or "attempts at realism". There are so many variables that, by making the system almost wholley abstract, it captures the strange fluid nature of financial matters in the randomization of a D20 roll.

So when a player asks why that 15k he found in the trunk of a car won't apply perfectly to a single purchase or won't raise his Wealth by a full 15k I can say anything: The proprietor saw you carrying 86lbs of small bills in a duffle bag into the store and jacked the price up before you opened your mouth. You had to pay off an outstanding debt with half of it. You'll have to declare it if you put it all in the bank and had to split it over two accounts making it harder to access ... or you DO declare it and the IRS takes 50%. Whatever! Thousand possibilities and they all balance out fine in: Find the DC, -3, "Sell", roll the dice, add it up, note it and MOVE ON. Over in less than fifteen seconds.

--fje