Pathfinder 2E Free Archetype Variant Rule - if you DON'T use it, why, and how did your players react?

Thomas Shey

Legend
I think it's fair to assume he feels like he's getting more out of the even levels where he gets a free feat, and not the ones where he doesn't.

My point was that he said Free Archetype gives you "one extra feat each level". It doesn't. It does give you six extra feats over time, but there's a big difference between six extra feats and twelve, let alone twenty.
 

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Kaodi

Hero
I do not understand where the idea that free archetype only gives six extra feats is. Maybe your group is using a variant of a variant. Standard free archetype, per the GMG:

"The only difference between a normal character and a free-archetype character is that the character receives an extra class feat at 2nd level and every even level thereafter that they can use only for archetype feats. Depending on the needs of the group and the theme of the game, you might restrict the free feats to those of a single archetype each character in the group has (for a shared backstory), those of archetypes fitting a certain theme (such as only ones from magical archetypes in a game set in a magic school), or entirely unrestricted if you just want a higher-powered game.

If the group all has the same archetype or draws from a limited list, you might want to ignore the free archetype’s normal restriction of selecting a certain number of feats before taking a new archetype. That way a character can still pursue another archetype that also fits their character."

And I think it was the confusion over "every level" was just a bit of unstated premise: that the "every level" in this case is "every level where you normally get new feats", so 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
I do not understand where the idea that free archetype only gives six extra feats is. Maybe your group is using a variant of a variant. Standard free archetype, per the GMG:

"The only difference between a normal character and a free-archetype character is that the character receives an extra class feat at 2nd level and every even level thereafter that they can use only for archetype feats. Depending on the needs of the group and the theme of the game, you might restrict the free feats to those of a single archetype each character in the group has (for a shared backstory), those of archetypes fitting a certain theme (such as only ones from magical archetypes in a game set in a magic school), or entirely unrestricted if you just want a higher-powered game.

If the group all has the same archetype or draws from a limited list, you might want to ignore the free archetype’s normal restriction of selecting a certain number of feats before taking a new archetype. That way a character can still pursue another archetype that also fits their character."

And I think it was the confusion over "every level" was just a bit of unstated premise: that the "every level" in this case is "every level where you normally get new feats", so 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20.


Well, I'll give you that I'd made an assumption given that Archetype do not, in any of the cases I've checked, have listed feats above 12th Level (something not true about normal class feats). However, there's another issue in that the term used is "Free Archetype" (note, singlular) and none of the ones I checked have more than eight feats anyway, so unless the singular is mistaken, there's no feats to take for the top few levels from a single Archetype.
 


Davies

Legend
Well, I'll give you that I'd made an assumption given that Archetype do not, in any of the cases I've checked, have listed feats above 12th Level (something not true about normal class feats). However, there's another issue in that the term used is "Free Archetype" (note, singlular) and none of the ones I checked have more than eight feats anyway, so unless the singular is mistaken, there's no feats to take for the top few levels from a single Archetype.
In the Multiclass Archetypes, you are allowed to take the 6th level feat that gives you a feat of the secondary class more than once. Also, you might want to examine the section in the Advanced Player's Guide about "Additional Feats" -- at least some of the archetypes there have feats of that sort that become available at level 20.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
In the Multiclass Archetypes, you are allowed to take the 6th level feat that gives you a feat of the secondary class more than once. Also, you might want to examine the section in the Advanced Player's Guide about "Additional Feats" -- at least some of the archetypes there have feats of that sort that become available at level 20.

Entirely fair. Though is this only regarding the Multiclass Archetypes or all of them? It makes a fairly big difference in general use.
 


Atomoctba

Adventurer
I know a group of friends that plays without it (I am not in that specific campaign). The reasoning is that they prefer more down to the earth characters and versatility should come with a price: using one of your class feats as an archetype one. For the same reason (down to the earth), that group prefers the proficiency without level variant.

One can argue that PF2 is not a game for those that prefer down to the earth characters, but that players like PF2 system and once there is no wrong fun, they prefer it that way :)
 

payn

I don't believe in the no-win scenario
I know a group of friends that plays without it (I am not in that specific campaign). The reasoning is that they prefer more down to the earth characters and versatility should come with a price: using one of your class feats as an archetype one. For the same reason (down to the earth), that group prefers the proficiency without level variant.

One can argue that PF2 is not a game for those that prefer down to the earth characters, but that players like PF2 system and once there is no wrong fun, they prefer it that way :)
I can certainly see the down to Earth argument. I feel the characters are pretty singular in approach and ability, but I prefer characters that are much more versatile. I prefer the free archetype and the level without proficiency variants though too. I think it speaks well to the system that it can be changed like this without the play suffering. IMO, of course.
 

Kaodi

Hero
Well, I'll give you that I'd made an assumption given that Archetype do not, in any of the cases I've checked, have listed feats above 12th Level (something not true about normal class feats). However, there's another issue in that the term used is "Free Archetype" (note, singlular) and none of the ones I checked have more than eight feats anyway, so unless the singular is mistaken, there's no feats to take for the top few levels from a single Archetype.

Every main caster archetype has a master spellcasting feat at 18th level, cavalier has a straight up 20th level capstone feat; not sure about beastmaster. But there is plenty of material in general.
 

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