Free multiclassing - what would be the problem?

[Plane Sailing]

I'm just kicking around a thought at the moment - what would be the implications of allowing everyone to multiclass freely like they do in Star Wars d20?

Obviously the Human and Half-Elf lose a bit of their "racial benefits". Is it significant enough that something should be given back in compensation?

I perhaps lean towards a benefit for the Half Elf of the +1 skill point per level from their human side (since they presently get part of their human heritage and part of their elven heritage... this changes the human heritage slightly).

The rate at which humans are played now merely for the single class benefits of feat plus extra skill point might illustrate that they don't need extra compensation, but I'm not sure.

Of course, I might be overlooking something very significant!

What are your thoughts on the matter? Anyone doing this already?

Cheers

 

[gamecat]

Because the world would be stuffed with monk1/ranger1s. Bleeding hell.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Would it really? Humans and Half elves could do that right now, but we don't often see it, do we?

After all, for someone who wants to be a sorcerer, taking their first levels as Monk 1 and Ranger1 means they are 8th level before they get their first 3rd level spell!

 

[fba827]

I perhaps lean towards a benefit for the Half Elf of the +1 skill point per level from their human side (since they presently get part of their human heritage and part of their elven heritage... this changes the human heritage slightly).

This would
1) make half-elves much more prominent in your world in terms of PCs - in my opinion, +1 skill point per level is a big deal (look at how much compensation it is to humans!)
2) This would minimize the effect for humans.

I am not saying it would be a bad thing, but just consider the impact it would have on humans' selection

Having said all that, I know this would be a slight deviation from 3e norm, but how about +1 skill point every _even_ character level (ie every other level)... okay, it is a random thought and one I have not fully thought about, just offering alternatives for consideration.

The rate at which humans are played now merely for the single class benefits of feat plus extra skill point might illustrate that they don't need extra compensation, but I'm not sure.

This is very true, at least in my experiences, the fact that humans can have any favored class is rarely used as insentive. However, it is some incentive.. So, yeah, I would say that something should be done to compensate, however minimal. I _would_ suggest a one-time bonus X number of skill points at level 1 or something (since the idea here is the races flexibility and adaptobility) but that seems overkill since they already get that. How about the compesation is to allow a non-exclusive class skill to forever be treated as a class skill. of course, this becomes trite and tiresome when players might flock to spot, listen, and search for their "chosen skill" - Overkill always bores an issue

What are your thoughts on the matter? Anyone doing this already?

I am not sure who it was, but I do vaguely recall someone in the House Rules section was once discussing the possibility of doing away with Multiclassing XP penalaties for non-multiclass and instead offering XP bonuses to those who stayed within the favored class... I am not sure I like that (nor can I visualize it being played out in effect), but, again, just mentioning options I heard kicked around.

Will think about it some more and post again if I come up with anything useful

 

[Jerrid Al-Kundo]

I always thought the +1 Skill Point variant I see get tossed around gave it to Humans as well (thus, they get +2).

At any rate, I permit in-game multiclassing, which is to say that I don't use the 20% penalty, but I insist on previous experience/activities/training to justify classes and levels aquired. As is, most of the PCs I DM for are single classed (Wizard 5, Psychic Warrior 4, Ranger 4, Fighter 3, Rogue 2, etc.). The multiclassing most often occurs at later levels (Example: an ECL8, then 4 Levels of Fighter, than 2 of Rogue; Another Example: A Psion 4, then 4 Levels of Monk, then 3 Levels of Fighter, another 3 Psion Levels, then another Fighter Level, followed by a PClass Level, then another Psion Level).

I've been debating using the +1 SP variant as well; Having just moved and my group reduced from 3 to 1 Player, it would be a suitable time to change the rule.

 

[phillcalle]

I already allow totally free multiclassing in my campaigns since I see classes as a collection of skills rather than actual campaign world constructs. Once everyone gets free multiclassing, humans and half-elves need to be improved slightly. Half-elves get their choice of a feat or +1 skill point per level. Humans may add 2 to any one stat and subtract 2 from another stat. And since my campaigns are not centered on combat, half-orcs add 2 to Str and subtract 2 from any stat.

If you do allow for free multiclassing, make sure to correct for certain possible abuses and problems. For instance, too much multiclassing can lead to some really high and really low saving throws and to low BAB.

I have a mathematical fix for it, but it's just as easy for you to tell the players that if their saves and BAB are too high or too low for their level, that you'll bring things in line.

Also keep in mind that all the classes are front-loaded, which is fine for games in which there is little multiclassing. In a game with a lot of multiclassing, such things can become annoying to players who single class and to the DM. You could simply lower the amount of front-loading after the first class by spreading out the front loading. For instance, someone multiclassing into barbarian gets fast movement at 1st level then rage at 2nd (or vice versa).

 

[Plane Sailing]

One excellent idea in the revised Star Wars d20 is that all of the classes get about four starting feats (some combat, some general) appropriate for their class... but if you multiclass into it at a later point you only get one of those starting feats... I think that could be a very workable solution to the "first level blowout" problem (in general, not in detail of course!)

Cheers

 

[Eternalknight]

Im my campaign, I have abolished XP penalties for multiclassing, and now use a system similar to Wheel of Time: If a characters first class level is in his or her favoured class, he or she may take a bonus "Background Feat" from a select list of feats. Humans automatically get a bonus feat therefore, in addition to the bonus feat for being first human.

 

[Chacal]

One excellent idea in the revised Star Wars d20 is that all of the classes get about four starting feats (some combat, some general) appropriate for their class... but if you multiclass into it at a later point you only get one of those starting feats... I think that could be a very workable solution to the "first level blowout" problem (in general, not in detail of course!)

Cheers

Interesting but it wouldn't work for every class. For instance, the rogue doesn't need this rule since skillpoints are already following it, and multiclassing in a spellcasting class already has its drawback.

In my (limited) experience, problems arise when multiclassing from non-spellcasting to another non-spellcasting class.

If you were to divide the class abilities into feats, a Fighter taking a level in Barbarian would probably take "rage" and not the armor feats. That would probably work for the monk though, but I don't use monks



My main gripe about the "favoured class" system is that it doesn't favor the class, and thus it fails to enforce some stereotypes. I'd go for the bonus XP option , but it's hard to balance. IIRC, I had proposed something along the lines of:
giving 100 xp/prefered class level reached, only usable on future prefered class level.

Th main disadvantage of this solution is that you have to keep track of 2 kinds of XP.


Chacal

 

[Steven McRownt]

Solving the Human problem

IMHO, I will overcome the loss of balance between H-Elves +Humans and other races in that way:

H-Elves: +1 Skill point per level OR Bonus feat
Humans: choose 3 skills, those skills will be considered as class skills always, regardless of the class

Steven McRownt