Frenzied Bezerker BBEG TPK

[the_mighty_agrippa]

Over the top.

A Barb6/FB4 would have been enough - probably too much, given Deathless Frenzy. On top of that, you negated the party's only chance of surviving, magic. Even if the PCs got smart and wanted to flee, they could not do so magically and odds are they can't outrun a raging fast-moving FB.

 

[Endur]

All I want to know is how long the frenzied berserker and the one eyed beholder were locked in the same room.

Beholder should have been dead before the party arrived. (Killed by the berserker).

 

[Patlin]

Multiple Grapplers

Several combatants can be in a single grapple. Up to four combatants can grapple a single opponent in a given round. Creatures that are one or more size categories smaller than you count for half, creatures that are one size category larger than you count double, and creatures two or more size categories larger count quadruple.

When you are grappling with multiple opponents, you choose one opponent to make an opposed check against. The exception is an attempt to escape from the grapple; to successfully escape, your grapple check must beat the check results of each opponent.

At 9th level, even the mage has a good chance of succesfully aiding another in a grapple check. So the parties best grappler can get +6 on his grapple check from teamwork alone. That's a pretty good chance, and once the grapple is established everyone else can jump in too. Hence, the term "pig pile." I think the chances are pretty good, as long as you have at least one strength based party member.

I still think the best option is to MOVE. Once you are in the hallway outside the room, it's unlikely the beholder can keep its eye on everyone at once, and even more unlikely it can do so while remaining out of reach.

Failing that, take out the beholder with bows first, then work on the FB.

 

[Vorput]

So... this was the final battle of the campaign- and the PCs didn't know anything about the BBEG they were going up against? That seems like a pretty cruel move on the DM's part... I can't imagine FBs are known for their staying behind the scenes and not drawing attention to themselves...

Vorp

 

[Vorput]

Failing that, take out the beholder with bows first, then work on the FB.

I think the idea was no one knew it was a FB... it's easy to come up with strategies in hindsight... but that was a pretty unwinnable battle... OTOH, I don't know what hints and clues the DM gave as the battle went on.

Vorp

 

[Patlin]

I think the idea was no one knew it was a FB... it's easy to come up with strategies in hindsight...

True. I'm certainly not faulting the players or anything, I'm just challenging the concept that the battle was completely unwinnable. If the battle was that central to the campaign, though, you'd think they would have had some idea what was coming. Also, a party of that level would have access to Divination, which could conceivably helped them prepare. Finally, the DM could have allowed a knowledge check to recognize the frenzy for what it was.

I don't think the battle was inherently unwinable. I do think that you'd have to be having a pretty good day as a player to survive.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Isn't it fun to design a battle that the PC's have no chance in heck of winning?

As DM I would have nixed that idea. It was a very badly balanced encounter. If that was what you were aiming for then congratulations. If not, then you and the DM should be slapped silly.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* The FB is also an overloaded piece of Munchkin bait. The proper response is to ban the class.

 

[Merifluous]

Well, my first observation is that when players are used to facing a particular style of game, they typically hone their abilities to that style of threat. Having an encounter set up by someone other than the one who usually creates what they typically face can make for a very difficult game.

One of my friends running a campaign had the exact same thing happen to his group...he asked for help with a 16th level Drow Cleric, so I created one for him. And it absolutely destroyed his party. From the recountings I heard (and my experience with my friend as a DM) the PCs simply were not accustomed to a tough cleric utlized to maximum effectiveness. I gave my friend the exact tactics to use, and his group simply was not used to their DM being so ruthless.

Now, most of my encounters are like that, so my group understands that I am more than willing to throw tough encounters at them, and sometime they have to run away, fight very very smart, or they will die. But they are used to it, and I;ve only had one TPK (and that wasn't a boss, it was a random encounter in a dungeon when the PCs were resting - in my experience, the most dangerous situation to put your PCs in).

 

[dvvega]

As pointed out by previous posters, the 1/2 Orc Bbn 6/FB 4 is not a possible build without some houseruling or something. Ignoring that, its a CR 10 encounter.

The party was what? 7 & 8. Nothing in the original post stated that they had magic/spells/equipment beyond the norm for 7 & 8. You said they seemed overpowered but then stated they had what was appropriate.

Let us ignore the Beholder and Traps for now ... you set them up against an encounter +2/+3 levels higher than them. This immediately suggests a 30-50% loss rate of the party instead of the average 20% of resources.

Now let us add in the Beholder (ignoring the traps). Normally a CR 13 encounter. You got rid of all eyestalks except telekinesis. So let us assume for argument's sake this drops the CR to 8. It still has telekinesis and anti-magic so I'm not going to drop it further than that.

According to encounter calculations, a CR 10 + an CR 8 are the same as a CR 11 or CR 12.

That's too powerful already and then you add in Traps. What CR were they etc?

You asked if you were over the top ... the answer is a definate yes ... there is no balance to this encounter anywhere, even the berserker on his own was dangerous, but the final encounter was at least +4 CR more if the traps were CR 8.

 

[XO]

Deus Ex Machina

Of course, your friend requesting your creation of the final encounter BBEG intended to start a Ghostwalk campaign all along !

How wonderfully it worked out, no ?