D&D 4E From the 4e MM preview: Astraljamming?!

[Fallen Seraph]

Saving this post so my players know why they're playing Firefly when they realize it.

Actually the second-half was inspired from Firefly, but you got to admit that would be damn awesome. Especially if you see them raiding Dominions and such.

First half, well if we got a Astral Sea and Astral Vessels, you just got to have ghost vessels.

 

[Dragonhelm]

I certainly prefer the idea of Spelljammers in the Astral Sea, rather then in actual space. I want to see honest to God starships in a space setting, and actual sci-fi elements (laser guns, power armor, etc). Not wooden ships and crossbows.

One of the things that drew me to Spelljammer is the idea of magical fantasy ships in space. It was a wacky concept, and one that worked (at least for me). It was something different.

I'm not certain what to think about this astral sea business. Spelljammers should travel through space, not through the planes. It was bad enough that they renamed the Arcane. (Mercane = ). Besides, if we chuck the phlogiston, we can't have fireball fun.

Bah! Spelljammer ROCKS, you landlubbers!
And it's not and shouldn't be "techno", it's magical space travel, that's the problem Spelljammer had, as folk are too used to Sci-Fi only for space, that they have become locked into that mindset. Sigh

Mmm, sailing the Astral Sea in a Man-O-War, WOOOOOOOOOT!
*does the Gopher Dance!*

Those are some slick ships! Woot!

Interesting. I was already planning on using Spelljammer for my first 4e campaign.

Score! So how were you going to add in the 4e races and classes?

To be fair, the word 'helmsman' has meant 'the guy who steers a ship' long before Spelljammer (or role-playing, or the United States) ever existed.

Don't forget Star Trek.

You can sorta get a taste of what a astral vessel looks like in this image:

The vessel itself, seems very ship-like, the ways the sails are though, I dunno it just gives me a Planescape/Sigil feel. Which I like

Warming up to the idea...

 

[Sojorn]

Actually the second-half was inspired from Firefly, but you got to admit that would be damn awesome. Especially if you see them raiding Dominions and such.

Yep, just need proof that it wasn't my own idea.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I posted this on the Devil's Thread last-night but it fits here more:


I am also wondering how many interesting planes from 3e will make it into 4e as Dominions. As well as just interesting places, we got so far:

-Sigil
-City of Brass
-Nine Hells

I wonder what others.

Broken Reach
Grenpoli
Mechanus' Fortress of Disciplined Enlightenment
Someplace from Orcus' layer, either Lachrymos or Naratyr
Arvandor
Khin-Oin, the Wasting Tower
Asgard

 

[WyzardWhately]

Yes, but the gods are allowed to get fancy and use things like an eight-legged horse that leaves hoofprints of fire, a chariot drawn by goats, a giant seashell, a boat pulled by swans, and other such "interesting" means of transport. Be wary if one pulls up beside your ship and challenges you to a race through the astral sea. Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than losing a wager to a god is winning....

Now I'm picturing the Olympic Gods involved in some kind of grandiose contest to build and race the fastest possible astral vessel, to win respect and their sweethearts and stuff. There'd be musical numbers and John Travolta would play Hermes...

I think I'll call it "Greece."

 

[small pumpkin man]

Now I'm picturing the Olympic Gods involved in some kind of grandiose contest to build and race the fastest possible astral vessel, to win respect and their sweethearts and stuff. There'd be musical numbers and John Travolta would play Hermes...

I think I'll call it "Greece."

That's awful. Wonderfully, wonderfully awful.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Dragonhelm,
*bows theatrically*
Check my site for my other Spelljamer art
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/htm/spelljammer.htm
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/sj/squidship/nebula_view.jpg

On ship sizes:
yeah folk need to realize that fantasy does NOT = dumb tech
Romans had some amazing tech for their era. Fantasy people, therefor, do not have to equal Iron Age in villages at the max typical.
Should always be what the DMs and players *see* the millieu as being.

We Humans have our mental conciets and limits. other races and especially with magic/psionic/deific powers, could come up with stuff we simply cannot concieve of.
This is a difficult thing for many folk to think of, but it's possible there could be discoveries in science in RL as well as art forms, we simply cannot see/grasp/create, purely because of our mindsets and limits.
Humans in OTHER universes may not be so limited, or have their own limits.
South AMericans were extremely advanced in many ways, but not in metallurgy, for example.

D&D example, in my home brew settings, there's a vast Roman-style EMpire using magic to help run it, it's legions armoured/armoured in adamantine (mined by condemend and dying slaves in horrible mines)...but, some places magic works different, some nations resisted them because the gods "said NO!"...etc etc. Places can vary highly. It's fantasy

Concerns for ships crew are leigt, from DMs perspective especially, but Spelljammer ships had smallish crews for several reasons, main one being *AIR!*.

No idea on how they'll handle the Astral Sea for air, but fire is certianly major bad mojo on a ship.

Weapons require crew...crew require food (food in Astral "Space"...load of space, but how much food? Big crews could starve...or be messed up by other factors)

In some ways I really do not like the "Points of Light" idea in 4th ed, it's fine for gritty campaigns, areas, but also doesn't jibe with many campaigns where sprawling empires, trans-planar conquests etc go on.
Which fit in great with Spelljamer and Planescape, however.

I see the Planes, and "space" as two different ways of getting to the same place, but the Planes are more dangerous and "weird".

We've just got a bad mind set that space HAS to = Scifi.
Jeesh, I can't stand a lot of scifi nowadays because it has become so damnably narrowminded, locked into ideas set by Star Trek and Star Wars. Great TV/film, but very, very bad for crippling how we percieve space travel.

My own bet for RL space travel is eventual discovery of antigravity and ships can be any old size/shape you want provided enough power, and they will not fly anything like Imperial Star Destroyers, lol, more like skimming around in any direction/acceleration you want as you're not locked into normal time/space, but your OWN time/space.
I'd imagine ships made by melting nickel/iron meteorites in space to form massive vessels who'se bulk would allow greater power, power generation being based on volume, larger ship = better.

Pardon the derail

 

[Hussar]

Take a look in the equipment section of the PHB again. They're mixing tools and devices from the classical period to the rennaisance. Romans built grain ships that topped 1000 tons, the Chinese built 400 foot long Junks with eight masts, the greeks built quinquiremes with a crew of more than a thousand.

Lets assume we do stick to the lower end of the spectrum and use your 80ft carrack as an example. An 80-90 foot barque carried as a fighting ship by the Royal Navy had a crew of just under a hundred. A merchant ship of the same size and rig could get away with roughly 20 but that's still far more than "the party and an NPC or two." Far worse than the ship sizes in previous editions have been the tiny crews and absurd deckplans.

True. But, your Barque is a 18th century ship. Do we also allow balloons and whatnot as well?

A Caravel can be sailed by a crew of about 10 (give or take) and can likely carry about 20 more passengers (again, give or take). That keeps it down to a nice manageable number around the table. If you get into more than that, game play just breaks down.

Yes, I'm quite aware of what the Chinese accomplished. However, considering the hue and cry about allowing anything non-Eurocentric into the game, could you imagine if that became the standard? The nerd rage would be spectacular.

Try moving your lines back a few centuries. Even the Chinese were not fielding those massive ships until the 14th and 15th centuries. Stick back into a bit before that and you don't have to get into these game breaking ships.

Sure, we could do quinquireems, but, then, I'd like to be able to sail outside of the relatively calm Mediterranean and into open ocean, where your massive ships sink like stones in the first decent blow.

All we have to do is stick with ships available about 13th century, maybe a bit into 14th and you solve all those problems. No having to handle 100's of combatants, no massive investment by the PC's to try to buy the ship and keep it running. No huge time sink in trying to do the math to keep such a ship running.

There's a reason Firefly had a crew of six. It works a hell of a lot better around the game table.

 

[Reaper Steve]

If this is what I think it is: w00t!

The last fledgling idea I had for a 3.5 game was to make everyone start at 2nd level, with at least one level of a psionic class. The characters were projections on the astral plane and would travel it on ships that were similar to shamelessly plagarized from Spelljammer.

I thought Spelljammer was great, but could get stupid since it was 'space.' Change 'space' to 'astral plane' and this (for me) became much better.

It also allowed me to explain when players showed up late (or not at all) or left early... theie projection was severed. Character killed but player still around? He could re-project during an interlude.

 

[Vaeron]

I thought Spelljammer was great, but could get stupid since it was 'space.' Change 'space' to 'astral plane' and this (for me) became much better.

I agree. I was really captivated by Spelljammer, but never found much success with it as a setting. But Spelljammer set in the planes? Now THAT'S a good idea, especiially since the planes are no longer as sequestered as they once were. They might have to change the name to something other than jammer, and I suppose spell would have to go also since there are many different power sources now...

I have to say, the picture someone posted of an astral vessel really got me excited.