Full circle: D&D now being based on video games...

[Thornir Alekeg]

Sure there is a circle that is coming around. It has to do with the market. D&D was an extremely popular game around the time the videogame industry was taking off. To leverage off that popularity, video games began using elements known to D&D players.

Today videogames are dominant. To leverage off their popularity, 4e looks like it is going to use some elements well known to videogamers.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Desdichado]

Be excellent to each other. And---PARTY ON, DUDES!

FIFY.

As to the actual content of the thread; I'll join the chorus and say that the original post seems to be ill-informed. Some of the claims made there are diametrically opposed to claims made by WotC designers that we've seen so far.

That said, if it were true, it's not a bad thing. One would expect to see some convergence between the two media as the capability of computer games to model more and more complex environments and scenarios continues to increase. It's not like there aren't plenty of similarities between the two media already that can't benefit from some cross pollination of ideas.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Thoughts?

Sure, I think newer versions of D&D have drawn on these (and other) elements. I think it's a natural result of the changing definition of "fantasy" in the culture, at large. Back in the early days of D&D, the "fantasy genre" was mostly defined by a relatively small set of writers (e.g. Howard, Vance, Leiber, Tolkien, et cetera). As time went on, fantasy became more popular, and more prominent in popular culture. Today, fantasy is all over, in all sorts of media. I'd hazard a guess that more people are exposed to the fantasy genre through video games and animation than through books, these days.

I know that any reference to video games, anime, et cetera, tends to get a hostile and dismissive reaction, but IMO, the idea that the "changing face of fantasy" has an influence on the world's most popular fantasy role playing game should come as no shock, whether one approves of that influence or not.

 

[Desdichado]

Sure, I think newer versions of D&D have drawn on these (and other) elements. I think it's a natural result of the changing definition of "fantasy" in the culture, at large. Back in the early days of D&D, the "fantasy genre" was mostly defined by a relatively small set of writers (e.g. Howard, Vance, Leiber, Tolkien, et cetera). As time went on, fantasy became more popular, and more prominent in popular culture. Today, fantasy is all over, in all sorts of media. I'd hazard a guess that more people are exposed to the fantasy genre through video games and animation than through books, these days.

On that note, I've actually insisted that my son read Lloyd Alexander recently. And he's seeming to enjoy it immensely. Still, yeah, his vision of fantasy doesn't come from "the classics" so much as from Japanese animation that he mostly picks up from his friends.

For that matter, long before I had read Howard, Vance or Leiber, my idea of fantasy as a kid had come from watching Disney's Sleeping Beauty and animated shows like some Hercules show I used to watch as a kid, and Sword & Sandal epics that would still run on Saturday afternoon network television, etc.

Truly classic motifs tend to be timeless, and will last forever, natch. My favorite literature was written many decades before I was born.

But yeah; fantasy has achieved a kind of mainstream popularity that is unprecedented in recent decades, so it's not surprising that all kinds of new influences will start to come into D&D. D&D always was a mishmash of every kind of fantasy influence imaginable---a weighted average of fantasy media in print so to speak. If that is still true, than of course we can expect to see some changes to D&D that reflect what fantasy fans are actually reading, watching or playing these days.

 

[tenkar]

Much of what I'm going to say has probably already been said by others but I feel a need to throw my hat into the ring:

1 - Most first level characters have abilities far beyond that of mortal men. Spell casters (both divine and arcane), paladins, barbarians, rogues, bards... basically all classes but a pure fighter does something that "normals" just can't do. It has been this way since OD&D. I fail to see how this is significantly different in 4e. If 0-level peasants start turning undead, radiating protection from evil from their person, or start casting magic missiles then the game has changed significantly.

2 - All reports on 4e show the bling level being turned down... I will assume that you are misinformed on this.

3 - DnD becoming more computer adaptable is GREAT! Now if I want to get my core group of friends together to game I don't need to wait for folks to fly from Dallas to NYC for some gaming. If WoTC ups the VTT to a new level I'll be a very happy camper.

4 - I foresee more mook fights in 4e then in 3.5... of course we won't know for sure before the masses get their hands on it.

5 - I don't care if DnD influences video game design. Why should I care? How does that effect my gaming (both RPG and video gaming)?

 

[Mistwell]

Remember when we used to say that video games had much of their content gained from D&D? Does anyone else now get the impression that things have come full circle and D&D is now being developed based on video game concepts of ease of play and depth of concepts?

No.

For example:
* Character abilities, even in the beginning, far outshines common folk (not necessarily a bad thing)

Always did, even from OD&D days. No indication of a drastic change here.

* Bling, bling, bling = character power (4E going where?)

This sentence makes no sense in the English language. Whatever you are thinking, you didn't communicate it well. Please rephrase.

* D&D becomming more computer adaptable

Not sure how this makes it more like a video game. My check book is now more computer adaptable, but it's not more like a video game. Most things in life are becoming more computer adaptable.

* "Interaction" diminished, Mortal-Combat type combats on the rise (4E getting rid of the weasels you have to fight, now going right to the BBEG)

I have seen no evidence of this at all, and they have said they are DECREASING the use of the BBEG, and INCREASING the use of multiple foes. And, that's been announced from the beginning, so I am suddenly suspicious you have not actually read the news about 4e.

* D&D 4E will probably not influence video game design in the least anymore

Why?

 

[BadMojo]

[5 - I don't care if DnD influences video game design. Why should I care? How does that effect my gaming (both RPG and video gaming)?[/QUOTE]

I think a lot of confusion comes from a lack of definition as to what exactly makes up a video game RPG when these comparisions are made. Final Fantasy is lot different from WoW, Ultima, Fallout, etc.

I do think the point about "more bling" is probably incorrect. All signs seem to point to "less stuff" and more character abilities. I personally don't like the idea of my character being highly dependent on a half dozen different magic items. I think it would be nice to see characters have that one big, iconic magic item like Stormbringer, Excalibur, uhhh...Snails' Magic Yo Yo.

 

[Shortman McLeod]

I do think the point about "more bling" is probably incorrect. All signs seem to point to "less stuff" and more character abilities. I personally don't like the idea of my character being highly dependent on a half dozen different magic items. I think it would be nice to see characters have that one big, iconic magic item like Stormbringer, Excalibur, uhhh...Snails' Magic Yo Yo.

Or the Dragon's Tail Cut.

Yeah yeah, I know, it was a move, not an item, and it's gone now, yeah yeah . . .

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Remember when we used to say that video games had much of their content gained from D&D? Does anyone else now get the impression that things have come full circle and D&D is now being developed based on video game concepts of ease of play and depth of concepts?

If this is true in any signficant capacity, I would argue that it is only because computer games have a VASTLY shorter, and vastly more dynamic design, development, and playtesting cycle. In the 5-10 years that it takes to see a new design iteration of D&D we see dozens, even hundreds of computer/video games influenced by D&D that have tested and either proven or junked variations to at least those D&D concepts they are capable of manifesting. The one aspect they REALLY want to be able to imitate - deep, spontaneous interactivity - will remain out of their reach far into the forseeable future. That a new version of D&D should actually take advantage of all that "research" on what sort of changes work and why (and then incorporate them) is hardly surprising. It would be surprising if it DIDN'T as that would be myopic.

 

[Pale]

I'm thinking that the fighter being pigeonholed into a "defender" role is fairly video-gamey.

First place I encountered that was in an MMO.