Full round casting and haste?

[Bonedagger]

A) You can use the extra partial action to complete the spell in same round you started casting it. (As in that all spellcasting speeds up when you are hasted)

B) Once you start casting you have to wait untill the next round where the spell will be completed just before it becomes your turn. (As in full-round spells requires that you summon some kind of external energy)

C) Other?

I know there was some discussion about this a while ago but I can't use the search funktion.

Please clarify answer.

 

[Mahali]

A. You cast the Full Round spell using all your actions and you get the obligatory 5' step.

 

[Bonedagger]

A. You cast the Full Round spell using all your actions and you get the obligatory 5' step.

That would also be my view.

It's just that I can remember more than one thread that contained this discussion. Just curious if some commen conclusion was reached and why. The ones arguing for B did seem sure that they where correct so.....

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

I would say it's B, but I've got no evidence to back it up.

Actually, rereading the spell, I would argue that you could take a partial action BEFORE you begin casting the full-round action spell, since it says in the Haste spell:

On his turn, the subject may take an extra partial action, either before or after his regular action.

As I read this, you could cast a spell, say Magic Missle, then begin casting Summon Monster III. You continue casting until your next turn in the next round.

 

[daemonslye]

Interesting question - At least more interesting than
I first thought -

Haste
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The transmuted creature moves and acts more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.

On his turn, the subject may take an extra partial action, either before or after his regular action.

What is a "regular" action? Can a fighter make a full attack
(a "full round action") and then land an extra ("partial action") blow? Yes. Can a fighter take a move ("move equiv. action") and
an attack ("standard action"). Yes.

What does the PHB say?

PHB.p148:

Casting Time
A spell that takes 1 full round to cast is a full round action.

SRD?

SRD:

Cast a spell(full-round) [Full][AoO: Yes]

Description: The spell will take effect just before the caster's action in the next round.

A combatant can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after casting such a spell, but cannot otherwise move.

The interesting angle of the issue lies within the question:

"So you can speed up the physical. Can you speed up
magic (say a summoning? a spell that takes 1min?)"

Lets look at spells that take 1min:

PHB.p148:

Casting Time
A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn one minute later (and for each of those ten rounds, you are casting the spell as a full round action)

So do you somehow cast the spell quicker if you were hasted
for those ten rounds? What if you were only hasted for five
rounds?

My inclination would be to rule that haste grants a physical
speed enhancement such that you are granted an extra
partial action in addition to your standard+move equiv or
"full attack" (as defined in the SRD) actions. Other full round
physical actions may be ruled on a case-by-case - "Charge"
action would leave you with an extra partial at the end of
the charge (as may "Climb(fast)", "Dive", and "Double Move").
"Change Form" and "Cast a Full Round Spell"
seem to have other circumstantial factors that make them a "full
round" action (and unaffected by haste).

Other misc actions:

Actions that may be hasted (IMO):

Escape from a net [Full][AoO: Yes]
Extinguish flames [Full][AoO: No]
Light a torch [Full][AoO: Yes]
Load a heavy crossbow [Full][AoO: Yes]
Load a repeating crossbow [Full][AoO: Yes]
Lock or unlock weapon in locked gauntlet [Full][AoO: Yes]
Prepare to throw oil [Full][AoO: Yes]
Throw a two-handed weapon with one hand [Full][AoO: Yes]
Use touch spell on up to six friends[Full][AoO: Yes]
Run [Full][AoO: Yes]
Coupe de Grace (well, I need to think about this one...)

Actions that may not be hasted (IMO):

Use a skill that takes 1 round [Full][Varies]
Refocus (no move) [Full][AoO: No]

Now, I am certain this has come up before - Any of the
alums on the board care to weigh in?

~D

 

[Bonedagger]

I would say it's B, but I've got no evidence to back it up.

Actually, rereading the spell, I would argue that you could take a partial action BEFORE you begin casting the full-round action spell, since it says in the Haste spell:

On his turn, the subject may take an extra partial action, either before or after his regular action.

As I read this, you could cast a spell, say Magic Missle, then begin casting Summon Monster III. You continue casting until your next turn in the next round.

Well. Yes.

But the main difference is how easy it is to disrupt the spell and in what round it takes effect (In the case of Summoning: When the monsters appear).

 

[daemonslye]

I like the concept of using the partial before the start
of a full round action. That works for me. Otherwise the
full round action is unaffected.

However - Does this mean you cannot move after a full
attack action? ;^)

~D

 

[Bonedagger]

The interesting angle of the issue lies within the question:

"So you can speed up the physical. Can you speed up
magic (say a summoning? a spell that takes 1min?)"

<Snip>

But by being able to combine spells that have a standard casting time and Haste are you then not already using Haste to speed up the process of the spell? You can suddenly cast two spells within 6 sec. instead of only one.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

T&B, page 80, addresses this subject. Basically, if you do not use the partial action before starting to cast the 1-round spell, you have to wait until your next turn to take your extra partial action. Then you begin your next round and get another full round plus a partial action.

So let's say your hasted wizard starts his turn by casting Summon Monster 1. He casts until just before his next turn, the monsters appear and attack, he takes his partial action, then he begins his next round, including another extra partial action before or after his normal action.

 

[Bonedagger]

T&B, page 80, addresses this subject. Basically, if you do not use the partial action before starting to cast the 1-round spell, you have to wait until your next turn to take your extra partial action. Then you begin your next round and get another full round plus a partial action.

So let's say your hasted wizard starts his turn by casting Summon Monster 1. He casts until just before his next turn, the monsters appear and attack, he takes his partial action, then he begins his next round, including another extra partial action before or after his normal action.

Thanks for the reference. To bad I don't have T&B



I think it ruins the logic though but it must have been done because of the gamebalance, IMO. Summoning spells do get much better if you get result in the same round.