Full round casting and haste?

[Number47]

This is a houserule, but such a common houserule that it is practically core, like the 5/10 diagonal movement.

 

[Iku Rex]

T&B, page 80, addresses this subject. Basically, if you do not use the partial action before starting to cast the 1-round spell, you have to wait until your next turn to take your extra partial action. Then you begin your next round and get another full round plus a partial action.

This is not the intent I think.

The Sage (Skip Williams, co-author of T&B) ruling is that a hasted character can use the extra partial action to complete a spell with a casting time of 1 full round on his turn.

So let's say your hasted wizard starts his turn by casting Summon Monster 1. He casts until the end of his turn, using both his partial action and his regular action. The monsters appear and attack immediately, but the partial action is "lost".

 

[Bonedagger]

This is not the intent I think.

The Sage (Skip Williams, co-author of T&B) ruling is that a hasted character can use the extra partial action to complete a spell with a casting time of 1 full round on his turn.

So let's say your hasted wizard starts his turn by casting Summon Monster 1. He casts until the end of his turn, using both his partial action and his regular action. The monsters appear and attack immediately, but the partial action is "lost".

I think I'm still going to use version A.

I couldn't really find any problem with balance after giving it some thought. Many powerful spells have standard casting time. Version B would just favour those spells (Spells should already be balanced so full-time casting spells should not be more powerfull than standard-casting time spells).

 

[Iku Rex]

I think I'm still going to use version A.

That was version A.

 

[Bonedagger]

That was version A.

It's was a conclusion.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

This is not the intent I think.

The Sage (Skip Williams, co-author of T&B) ruling is that a hasted character can use the extra partial action to complete a spell with a casting time of 1 full round on his turn.

So let's say your hasted wizard starts his turn by casting Summon Monster 1. He casts until the end of his turn, using both his partial action and his regular action. The monsters appear and attack immediately, but the partial action is "lost".

That certainly is not what the T&B says. If it was the intent, then they did a good job of writing the opposite of what they intended. I have not seen that sage ruling. Is it in the FAQ?

 

[Iku Rex]

That certainly is not what the T&B says. If it was the intent, then they did a good job of writing the opposite of what they intended. I have not seen that sage ruling. Is it in the FAQ?

The passage in T&B is "certainly not" as clear cut as you make it out to be in your post. Several people have asked the Sage, and his answer has been as I explained above.

Here is the e-mail I sent November 3, 2001 (Skip's replies in bold):

How does Haste affect the casting of full-round spells? I have read the relevant parts of the FAQ, T&B abd PHB, and I'm still not sure how it's supposed to work.

Every partial action you spend counts as half a full-round, action, see page 80 in Tome and Blood.

Douglas the Druid is hasted (round 1), and as he starts his turn in round 2 he wants to get of his "Summon Nature's Ally" and "Animal Growth" spells as quickly as possible.

1. Douglas casts Summon Nature's Ally as his "regular" action (a full-round action). Since Haste allows him to take his extra partial action after he finishes the spell (T&B p. 80), and the partial action occurs on his turn, the summon spell must be completed _immediately_ and he can use his partial action to cast Animal Growth. The *big* animal attacks right after Douglas' turn, in round 2.

2.Douglas casts Summon Nature's Ally as his "regular" action (a full-round action). Since Haste allows him to take his extra partial action after he finishes the spell (T&B p. 80), he gets his partial action right _before_ his next turn (one round later), when the summon spell is finished. The *big* animal attacks in round 3, right before Douglas' turn.

3. Douglas casts Summon Nature's Ally as his "regular" action (a full-round action). He uses his remaining partial action to finish the spell on his turn. The (still normal sized) animal attacks right after Douglas turn, in round 2.

Correct.

4. Other

#3 is correct.

Skip Williams
RPG R&D

 

[Bonedagger]

The passage in T&B is "certainly not" as clear cut as you make it out to be in your post. Several people have asked the Sage, and his answer has been as I explained above.

Here is the e-mail I sent November 3, 2001 (Skip's replies in bold):

How does Haste affect the casting of full-round spells? I have read the relevant parts of the FAQ, T&B abd PHB, and I'm still not sure how it's supposed to work.

Every partial action you spend counts as half a full-round, action, see page 80 in Tome and Blood.

Douglas the Druid is hasted (round 1), and as he starts his turn in round 2 he wants to get of his "Summon Nature's Ally" and "Animal Growth" spells as quickly as possible.

1. Douglas casts Summon Nature's Ally as his "regular" action (a full-round action). Since Haste allows him to take his extra partial action after he finishes the spell (T&B p. 80), and the partial action occurs on his turn, the summon spell must be completed _immediately_ and he can use his partial action to cast Animal Growth. The *big* animal attacks right after Douglas' turn, in round 2.

2.Douglas casts Summon Nature's Ally as his "regular" action (a full-round action). Since Haste allows him to take his extra partial action after he finishes the spell (T&B p. 80), he gets his partial action right _before_ his next turn (one round later), when the summon spell is finished. The *big* animal attacks in round 3, right before Douglas' turn.

3. Douglas casts Summon Nature's Ally as his "regular" action (a full-round action). He uses his remaining partial action to finish the spell on his turn. The (still normal sized) animal attacks right after Douglas turn, in round 2.

Correct.

4. Other

#3 is correct.

Skip Williams
RPG R&D

Hmm... Before this post I thought that the core rules had been found flawed and that version A was the sages answer and B the T&B's.


Now I'm a bit confused however because the sages answer you gave is not in conflict with what the core rules say. In that case I wonder what all the fuss was about back then.


But your definition is the logical conclusion when using the core rules. It must be because I sometimes found Haste to be 'a bit' to effective that I didn't really question the basis for this discussion


Have I misjudged Haste? If so, will Haste ever forgive me for this? Will my players?.... Probably (Their enemies had the same problems )

 

[Dr. Zoom]

The passage in T&B is "certainly not" as clear cut as you make it out to be in your post. Several people have asked the Sage, and his answer has been as I explained above.

I only make it out to be what T&B says. Skip very well could clarify that what was meant was not quite what was said. I have no problem with that. Of course, this needs to be in Sage Advice and/or the FAQ.

T&B says you can take your partial before or after you cast the 1-round spell. It says nothing about using the partial action to complete those spells early. It does say that you can complete a 1-minute spell sooner if you are hasted, but it requires 2 partial actions to reduce the spell's casting time by one round. So, IMO, you should not be able to reduce the casting time of a one round spell with one partial action.

 

[Bonedagger]

I only make it out to be what T&B says. Skip very well could clarify that what was meant was not quite what was said. I have no problem with that. Of course, this needs to be in Sage Advice and/or the FAQ.

T&B says you can take your partial before or after you cast the 1-round spell. It says nothing about using the partial action to complete those spells early. It does say that you can complete a 1-minute spell sooner if you are hasted, but it requires 2 partial actions to reduce the spell's casting time by one round. So, IMO, you should not be able to reduce the casting time of a one round spell with one partial action.

It wouldn't have to say anything about completing it earlier. A full-round action spell takes just that to cast, 1 full-round action. It doesn't matter if you complete that full-round action in 4, 6 or 10 seconds. All haste do is to give you an extra partial action.

2 partial actions -> 1 full-round action. How slow or fast you complete your actions is irrelevant.

In the case of a 10 min casting-time spell it would consist of 10 full-round actions. In round 3 without haste you would have completed 3 full-round actions. With haste from the start you would in round 3 have completed 4 1/2 full-round actions.