Fumbles??

[Scharlata]

Hi, Souljourner

Your 200000 gp weapon can spontaneously fall apart?

Wonderful opportunity to get rid off of some really bad, bad, bad weapon

You could critically hit a teammate?

As a player, I remain beyond the reach of the one character wielding the spiked chain.....

The "critical fumble" isn't just a misnomer. You fumble critically at crucial times. It can be bad and the whole group holds "its" breath every time the DM must consult the chart.

And by the way... Loose is the opposite of tight. The word you want is lose. You lose money at a casino.

Lost again! Damn! Thanx and chart will be edited just now.

Kind regards

 

[Scharlata]

Thats why every single Fumble system I have seen is stupid,and fumbles that can last after that one combat is over are even more unfair to the PC's (see Scharlata's post.)

Good morning!

If you like to know, the monsters fumble critically, too, so the chart above is not "unfair" to the PCs. It is "unfair" to everyone Monsters with a full attack of more than one attack are likely to miss more often than the ones that get only one attack each round.

BUT......

... if you read the instructions in the "user manual" above the chart CAREFULLY and apply the rules than you would know that your example was not calculated correctly.

BECAUSE....

... Mr. Conan will miss on a natural "1" as any ordinary necromancer with a Dire Flail in his hands, but Conan is not likely to confirm the critical miss on the second roll (the confirmation roll) because it IS REALLY unlikely that ANOTHER "1" will show up. On the other hand, Mr. Low Lee Necromancer will confirm a natural "1" with just any other second roll (confirmation roll) result as befits his poor combat skills.

SO....
... there's the beef!

IF you like, you could exercise with some d20 and your wolves in your den.


Kind regards

 

[robberbaron]

These are the Fumble tables I use in my 3.5 campaign:

Melee Attack
1-5 No effect beyond looking daft in combat.
6-9 Off Balance: Lose all actions until your Initiative next round (you may take a 5' step).
10-12 Fall Over.
13-15 Blood in the Eyes: 25% miss and -2 AC & Initiative. 1 full round action to fix. [-1 AC & Initiative w/Blindfighting].
16-18 Weapon knocked away: d3x5', d8 for direction.
19 Weapon damaged: roll damage and apply to weapon.
20 Hurt self: ½ rolled damage. Reflex save DC15 to pull Strength.

Missile Attack
1-6 Shot goes wild. DC12 search to find missile.
7-10 Shot goes really wild. DC18 search to find missile.
11-13 Weapon dropped.
14-16 Weapon damaged: roll damage and apply to weapon (no STR bonus).
17-18 Fall Over.
19 Hit nearest friend within range in cone of sight: rolled damage.
20 Hurt self: ½ rolled damage.


Haven't had the opportunity to test the effects of all these options, so don't know if any of them will need amending.

BTW, we use - roll a "1" and fail a DC15 Reflex save and you have fumbled.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Consider the Critical Fumble = Provoke AoO yoinked. To show some mercy, though, I'd say it only provokes an AoO from the opponent attacked and fumbled against.

And I likewise approve of 1, plus confirming by missing a second attack roll.

edit: For ranged weapons, I'd probably do something like a snapped bowstring or a jammed gun, that requires a full-round to correct.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

IMC we used to use the "Good Hits Bad Misses" chart in a best of dragon mag. We have since migrated to 3.x. Now there is a whole new "Criticle Hi" system. What i am looking for is a flavorfull fumble chart. It just adds so much color to a game to have your character lose his grip and have his sword fly across the room rather than just losing the rest of his attacks. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

My home computer fell down-went boom last night, so I didn't get to email my house rules to the folks who emailed me and asked for them. So please email me again at dungeonmastercal@yahoo.com today, and I can email them to you. Sorry for the delay!

 

[reanjr]

IMC we used to use the "Good Hits Bad Misses" chart in a best of dragon mag. We have since migrated to 3.x. Now there is a whole new "Criticle Hi" system. What i am looking for is a flavorfull fumble chart. It just adds so much color to a game to have your character lose his grip and have his sword fly across the room rather than just losing the rest of his attacks. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Kingdoms of Kalamar DM Screen had a very simple, yet effective fumble chart. Basically, whenever a roll of 1 came up, you would roll a reflex save DC 15. If you succeed, nothing weird happens, you just miss. If you fail, you look on the chart, under how much you failed by [edit: this also fixes the problem of high level characters fumbling often, because a natural 1 is NOT treated as a failure]. So if you failed by 1 (got a 14) nothing tragic would happen, but some small annoyance. If you got a 1 (failed by 14) all sorts of bad could occur. You could probably easily create a similar chart. Weapons breaking, weapons flying 1d20 feet away, wide swing, leaving yourself open for an attack of opporunity, injuring oneself (unlikely with most weapons, but I suppose it could happen occasionally), injuring a nearby ally, etc. are all things I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Enkhidu]

Consider the Critical Fumble = Provoke AoO yoinked. To show some mercy, though, I'd say it only provokes an AoO from the opponent attacked and fumbled against.

As an aside, we've been using this variant for Fumble-AoO for a while, and fund that it breaks down at higher levels when both PCs and monsters get more attacks.

I'd suggest only allowing a critical fumble on the first attack in a routine.

 

[reanjr]

Thats why every single Fumble system I have seen is stupid,and fumbles that can last after that one combat is over are even more unfair to the PC's (see Scharlata's post. Unles of course- as a DM- you randomly have groups of monster have their weaposn broken prior to combat becuase of "fumbles" earlier.

You've seen some dumb fumble systems. Fumbles can work. They just have to be done right.

 

[reanjr]

After rolling a natural 1 on an attack roll, confirm a miss by missing a second time (analogous to a confirmation roll for a critical hit).

That makes absolutely no sense. A ranger in leather armor (AC 12) fighting a paladin in full plate (AC 18), both with attack bonus of +1, would fumble 60% more often. Give him bracers of armor +8 and they fumble the same.

 

[reanjr]

Good morning!

If you like to know, the monsters fumble critically, too, so the chart above is not "unfair" to the PCs.

Not exactly true. As is stated in the DMG countless times, anything that adds randomness to combat is unfair to the PCs who are in every combat. The enemies only see 1 combat usually; lots less chance to fumble at some point that causes death.