Fumbles??

[reanjr]

As an aside, we've been using this variant for Fumble-AoO for a while, and fund that it breaks down at higher levels when both PCs and monsters get more attacks.

I'd suggest only allowing a critical fumble on the first attack in a routine.

That's a really good idea. I like that and will probably use it.

 

[Enkhidu]

That's a really good idea. I like that and will probably use it.

If you like that, you might also like the method we use to determine if a fumble is a critical fumble. We use a "confirmation" roll, but one that is a little different from a "you miss, you confirm" method. Instead, when you roll a fumble, you roll a quick d4 to determine what your "confirmation range" is, and then if you hit the # on the d4 or below you have confirmed. Once rolled, the d4 is good for every fumble you roll for the night.

We actually do somthing similar for criticals (in addition to the standard extra damage on a critical hit) - they crop up just often enough to make things interesting.

 

[Scharlata]

That makes absolutely no sense. A ranger in leather armor (AC 12) fighting a paladin in full plate (AC 18), both with attack bonus of +1, would fumble 60% more often. Give him bracers of armor +8 and they fumble the same.

Hi!

That IS the CLUE! It IS absolutely logically that someone who is better armored and/or better in avoiding a blow contributes to YOUR critical fumble. The foe may make your weapon glide out of your grasp, or parry the attack and deflect the weapon, or make a "feint" and letting him exploit an opening that you give him to hit you easier, or distract you, and so on...

That makes ABSOLUTELY sense. Give your attacker a better armor class and avoid fumbles. This mechanic works in a fast and colorful way without wasting game time. You may consider that a fast way to change the flow of a battle.

Sure, you may decline and go the way all others do.

Kind regards

 

[Scharlata]

Not exactly true. As is stated in the DMG countless times, anything that adds randomness to combat is unfair to the PCs who are in every combat. The enemies only see 1 combat usually; lots less chance to fumble at some point that causes death.

Hi, again!

You want to make me believe that the Critical Hit System is instead fair to the PCs?

It has the same game mechanics. The PCs are in every fight on stage. The monsters probably (99%) are a one-show act. Why is it "unfair" to the PCs using THE SAME mechanics when playing with the FUMBLE system, and then it seems to be "fair" using the HIT system? I don't get your point.

Besides: Your example of the two opponents which are armored differently and have therefore different miss/hit chances works both ways. The same mechanic allows you avoiding critical hits.

Kind regards

 

[Benben]

Here's the system my table is happy with:

A roll of a natural 1 durina an attack is a potential fumble. If 1+bonuses hits then it's not a fumble if it misses then the player confirms the fumble by rolling the attack again with the same to hit bonus as before. If that roll succeeds then it's just a miss. If he fails this second roll then it's an AoO for anybody who threatens him in the case of melee, or nothing happens in the case of ranged.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Hi, again!

You want to make me believe that the Critical Hit System is instead fair to the PCs?

It has the same game mechanics. The PCs are in every fight on stage. The monsters probably (99%) are a one-show act. Why is it "unfair" to the PCs using THE SAME mechanics when playing with the FUMBLE system, and then it seems to be "fair" using the HIT system? I don't get your point.

Besides: Your example of the two opponents which are armored differently and have therefore different miss/hit chances works both ways. The same mechanic allows you avoiding critical hits.

Kind regards

"Fair" is a poor choice of words. "Advantaged" is better. The DMG does say that anything that adds randomness tends to provide an advantage to the underdogs in any one fight - which is usually the monsters. I think it is right.

If you have a game structured where the PCs fight very few battles, retreat or surrender about as often as they win, and only have encounters that have a CR considerably above theirs (4 or more), then randomness will favor the PCs. If you have a structure where they usually have encounters of CR equal to the party level, and win more often than not, then randomness favors the monsters.