Fun with Tide of Iron & other notes from today's playtest

[BASHMAN]

So today I finally got to PLAY 4e (instead of DMing it w/ the preview materials). I played the dwarf fighter, and aside from my daily, only used one maneuver-- Tide of Iron. I had me a lot of fun with that. I used it to push 2 enemies off the top of a 30' tower, and then in the final combat, we were fighting a demon that had to be pushed into a pool of sulfer to be defeated. 3 rounds in a row I use Tide of Iron to push him back. When he tried to move to get away, I did my AOO w/ +2 to stop him from leaving (I had already marked him) and then pushed him into it. It was really coo.... fun.

Our group consisted of a Fighter (me), Warlock, & Ranger. So a Defender & 2 Strikers. We had no cleric, no paladin, no potions, & no problems getting through 6 encounters (2 of which were w/ demons) and never had to take a 6 hour rest (though the last fight we all came close to taking an eternal rest).

This is interesting b/c earlier that day, I GMed twice. Both were TPKs. First was the Wizard & Rogue, refusing the help on an NPC paladin, and later try to kill him (and die for their trouble). There was some fun RP in this session (bargaining w/ the dragon instead of fighting it). There was also some very creative use of cantrips to avoid a fight-- since a cantrip is a minor action, you can cast 3 per round. From hiding, the wizard mage-handed a skull into the air and moved its mouth like a sock puppet, used Light to make its eyes glow, and ghost sound to make it say KILL YOU in draconic to a bunch of kobolds. Every fight I ran I did by the book using recomended XP values, but they kept getting creamed (no defender I think).

Second game I ran "Escape from Zanzer's Dungeon" (there is almost enough materials in preview stuff to just run it). This time the party was a Cleric, Rogue, NPC Berserker, & Wizard. Again, no defender, and again, TPK. They made it to the gnolls (which I had made "Claw fighters" (a party of 4 facing 2 of them) and they were EVICERATED by them. They had a ton of HP, could get 2 attacks/ round w/ +5 DMG per attack on top of the regular. Pack attack is GROSS.

So something I think I'll do is halve the HP that monsters have, and halve the XP per monster (slower advancement that way-- 1 level /20 fights). People complained how tough the danged kobolds were. The fights in general seemed to drag on way too long. I also think that a party cannot succeed w/o a defender to draw aggro & deal hefty damage.

 

[small pumpkin man]

There was some fun RP in this session (bargaining w/ the dragon instead of fighting it). There was also some very creative use of cantrips to avoid a fight-- since a cantrip is a minor action, you can cast 3 per round. From hiding, the wizard mage-handed a skull into the air and moved its mouth like a sock puppet, used Light to make its eyes glow, and ghost sound to make it say KILL YOU in draconic to a bunch of kobolds.

Awesome

 

[Gort]

Yeah, I love the new "you can use cantrips as a minor action" rule - mage hand is actually worthwhile and might see the light of day now! (cue someone claiming that they played a mage from level 1 to 20 and only ever used mage hand spells)

I GMed for a group with no defender as well - they didn't do that well. Two of the party got killed, and they brought in new characters - one a paladin. They are so annoying! I kept forgetting that I had to shoot the paladin and he kept having to remind me. I think defenders are going to be the PC class that I love to hate

On the subject of your TPK against the gnoll claw-fighters - that was a pretty tough fight you put them up against. I don't know how good your NPC berserker was, but a 3-person party at level 1 should only be facing 300 XP worth of monsters, not 500. Instead of halving monster hitpoints, which could give you problems (even if the claw fighters only have 35 HP instead of 70, they still have high defenses, which could make combat against them feel very "whiffy") I'd use more numerous lower level monsters.

 

[TheLordWinter]

Second game I ran "Escape from Zanzer's Dungeon" (there is almost enough materials in preview stuff to just run it). This time the party was a Cleric, Rogue, NPC Berserker, & Wizard. Again, no defender, and again, TPK. They made it to the gnolls (which I had made "Claw fighters" (a party of 4 facing 2 of them) and they were EVICERATED by them. They had a ton of HP, could get 2 attacks/ round w/ +5 DMG per attack on top of the regular. Pack attack is GROSS.

Those gnolls should indeed be tough, since they are a 6th level enemy. The berserker you mentioned I presume is the Level 3 Human Berserker monster which has been statted up. Was he not able to serve as a distraction against the gnolls? He should have likely been busting out quite a bit of damage, and at least should have gotten torn up before the rest of the party. Also, what did you do for the Rogue's 1st level Daily power?

As far as the Gnolls go, they were likely a bit too powerful for the party. As has been mentioned the two gnolls could be considered the equivalent of roughly five 1st level characters. In addition, I'm relatively sure Pack Attack shouldn't have come into play - the text of the ability says "The gnoll claw fighter deals an extra 5 damage on melee attacks against an enemy that has two or more of the gnoll claw fighter's allies adjacent to it."

Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think that wording implies that you need a minimum of three gnolls (or their allies) in order to make Pack Attack happen, since the gnoll claw fighter with the ability doesn't get to count himself.