D&D 5E Futzing With Experience Points (Exploration and Treasure for XP)

[not-so-newguy]

TL;DR I'm experimenting with a new way to calculate XP that involves exploration and loot with focus on the Isle of Dread module.


My next foray into DMing a major campaign will be the Isle of Dread and I'd like to change the way we've been doing experience. Rather than killing monsters or hitting certain plot points, I'd like to focus on exploring and gaining treasure.


The treasure part is simple: 1 gp worth of loot = 1 XP. I will be reducing the loot found in the module. Right now, it seems like dividing the gp value by 10 is good. That may change after further reading.


Exploration, however, is a tough nut to crack. To help solve this I'm developing the exploration bonus. I extracted the xp required to gain each level from 3rd through 10th in the table below in parentheses. 5% of the xp required to gain a level becomes the exploration bonus. For example, it takes 1,800 xp to get from 3rd to 4th level, so the 5% Exploration Bonus will be 90 xp.


5% Exploration Bonus (XP required to gain level)


3rd 90 (1,800)
4th 190 (3,800)
5th 375 (7,500)
6th 450 (9,000)
7th 550 (11,000)
8th 700 (14,000)
9th 800 (16,000)
10th 1,050 (21,000)


A character gains 5% Exploration Bonus for following actions:


*Crossing an unexplored hex
*Encountering a monster
*Exploring a structure (half bonus, full bonus, 150% bonus, Double bonus). Must exit structure for bonus to apply.
*Changing hostile creatures' attitudes to friendly during an encounter.(charm spells or abilities do not apply)


[EXAMPLE 1] Tiamat decides to take a small vacation on the Isle of Dread. She telelports there, summons a small cottage with a warm fire and comfortable bed, then takes a nap.


Here comes the 5th level adventurers who are exploring the area with weapons out, ready to pounce. They discover the cottage and encounter a pissed off tiamat recently awaken from a nap. A fight ensues, but the PCs miraculously survive.


The Exploration Bonus for 5th level is 375.


*Hex exploration
*Encountering a monster
*Exploring a small structure, half bonus (rounded to 190)


Total experience points: 940


[EXAMPLE 2] A kobold shaman has recently lost his bid to become chieftain. Facing death by the hands of his political rival, the shaman decides to hide away in some deep, forgotten cavern.


Here comes the same group of 5th level adventurers. They explore all the rooms in the cavern and discover the hidden door to the shaman's lair. Being outnumbered 5 to 1, the shaman pleads for his life in Common. Seeing no contest, the group decides to take it prisoner.


OTOH the group may decide to converse with it rather than taking it prisoner (or killing it). Passing a difficult charisma check (probably persuasion); the shaman warms up to the group, seeing potential allies that can help with his political ambitions.


*Hex exploration
*Encountering a monster
*Exploring a large structure, 150% bonus (565)


*Changing attitude to friendly


Total Experience Points: 1315 + 375 (changing attitude to friendly)


[EXAMPLE 3] Fifteen pirates have built a crude fortress on a rocky island.


Here come the 5th Level adventurers. They defeat the pirates in several skirmishes and take over the fortress.


*Hex exploration
*Encountering a monster (1)
*Encountering a monster (2)
*Exploring a structure, normal bonus


Total Experience Points: 1,500


Note: If the PCs decided to take on the monsters all at once or in fifteen separate battles, then they would still receive experience for two monster encounters. DM's discretion on what constitutes a monster encounter.

 

[Shiroiken]

Seems a bit... excessive.

I'd tone gold down to 10gp = 1xp, because players are already on the lookout for loot, and giving them straight xp is going to encourage them to steal everything that isn't nailed down and try and sell it (for xp).

For exploration, I'd simply let the players know that there are many areas to be explored, and that XP will be provided for exploring them. Each unexplored hex should have a CR, as should ruins and other locales. I would suggest half the xp value of the average monster found in the hex, and probably CR 1-5 for various locales, based on size and danger.

Oh, and if you do this, I suggest giving only half XP for monsters, otherwise the PCs will level VERY fast!

 

[Oofta]

The question I have for you is simple.

What purpose does XP and leveling serve in your campaign? What kind of story are you trying to tell?

I've abandoned XP in my games and decided to simply grant people levels when I think it is appropriate for the story. Handing out experience points as a reward always seemed to be a bit odd to me in the first place, a character's level should be a reflection of their growth as a person in their area of expertise. I don't want to track the hours of training in sword practice, or studying arcane lore that is necessary for the fighter to be just a little bit faster or that the wizard needs to understand the magical underpinnings of the fireball spell. That would be boring, but it's a big component of how people in any area of expertise grow. It's a combination of doing, training and persistence.

So if you want to give out XP for gold or other milestones, feel free. Figure out how much loot you're going to give them by the time you want them to be level x and work backwards.

Or just do what I do and let them know that they level up when it makes sense for the story.

 

[77IM]

I love this idea. I agree with other posters that it may be slightly too complicated. But I don't have a great suggestion for how to streamline it.

 

[CapnZapp]

The question I have for you is simple.

What purpose does XP and leveling serve in your campaign? What kind of story are you trying to tell?

I've abandoned XP in my games and decided to simply grant people levels when I think it is appropriate for the story. Handing out experience points as a reward always seemed to be a bit odd to me in the first place, a character's level should be a reflection of their growth as a person in their area of expertise. I don't want to track the hours of training in sword practice, or studying arcane lore that is necessary for the fighter to be just a little bit faster or that the wizard needs to understand the magical underpinnings of the fireball spell. That would be boring, but it's a big component of how people in any area of expertise grow. It's a combination of doing, training and persistence.

So if you want to give out XP for gold or other milestones, feel free. Figure out how much loot you're going to give them by the time you want them to be level x and work backwards.

Or just do what I do and let them know that they level up when it makes sense for the story.

I'm sure you mean well, Oofta, but as someone whose questions are often derailed in the same fashion, I gotta speak up on the OP's behalf.

There's nothing wrong with what you say. Everything about sounds sensible. Yet, I find it inappropriate as an answer.

Why? Because in effect, what your reply is saying is "no don't do the thing you started the thread about, do this other thing instead"

And that just shuts down discussion, or worse, hijacks the thread. If you want to discuss the advantages of milestone leveling, this is not the thread. If you want to convince people to switch away from xp for gold, this is definitely not the thread.

It's one thing when a thread organically veers off subject. It's another when posters try to turn the thread 180 degrees. I don't like it, and would ideally want it moderated (at least if the thread starter indicates so: perhaps by the "+" notation as used over at rpg.net)

I hope you see I'm not gunning for you specifically Oofta. I fully accept you posted in good faith. Have a nice day.

---

Now, I'm fully aware I myself have sidetracked the thread. So let's discuss this matter over at Meta.

Instead let me splice in my response to the OP into this very post so I can end on topic

TL;DR I'm experimenting with a new way to calculate XP that involves exploration and loot with focus on the Isle of Dread module.


My next foray into DMing a major campaign will be the Isle of Dread and I'd like to change the way we've been doing experience. Rather than killing monsters or hitting certain plot points, I'd like to focus on exploring and gaining treasure.


The treasure part is simple: 1 gp worth of loot = 1 XP. I will be reducing the loot found in the module. Right now, it seems like dividing the gp value by 10 is good. That may change after further reading.


Exploration, however, is a tough nut to crack. To help solve this I'm developing the exploration bonus. I extracted the xp required to gain each level from 3rd through 10th in the table below in parentheses. 5% of the xp required to gain a level becomes the exploration bonus. For example, it takes 1,800 xp to get from 3rd to 4th level, so the 5% Exploration Bonus will be 90 xp.

As for xp-for-gold, I find that play style fascinating too, and would love to try it out.

I have found one blog crunching the numbers on the question if you can use the DMG treasure tables straight off, assuming 1 gold = 1 xp.

The answer seems to be a qualified yes: http://blogofholding.com/?p=6760

---

As for exploration: could I remind you the game already contains a mechanism for handing out "part of the XP needed to level"?

What would that mechanism be?

The xp reward for a level-appropriate monster, is what.

I agree with other posters saying this looks complicated. Perhaps you could simply say that a simple exploration gives you the xp of a monster of the party's level (CR 5 for fifth level heroes)?

A simple explore action gives only xp for CR 3, while a difficult or complex exploration might give CR 8 perhaps...

I mean that's already got everything you want out of a "5% of the xp needed to level" calculation. Can't remember the exact numbers, but the game's xp rewards are set up to yield a level every 13 encounters or so.

 

[not-so-newguy]

I have a response, just a bit too tired right now to make a well reasoned one. So it'll have to wait til tomorrow.

Eta I appreciate the feedback!

 

[Oofta]

I'm sure you mean well, Oofta, but as someone whose questions are often derailed in the same fashion, I gotta speak up on the OP's behalf.

There's nothing wrong with what you say. Everything about sounds sensible. Yet, I find it inappropriate as an answer.

Why? Because in effect, what your reply is saying is "no don't do the thing you started the thread about, do this other thing instead"

My point was not to derail the topic, merely to look at it from a different perspective. Base rules can be boiled down into "how many easy/medium/hard encounters can I have before I level up?"

Since I don't know the wealth level expectations of the campaign, it's impossible to say 1 GP = X experience.

Especially since GP in base D&D is based on how many monsters you kill.

In addition to that point I also don't think it's necessary to track XP to have a valid campaign.

Sorry if trying to make two statements in one comment was not clear.

 

[not-so-newguy]

Seems a bit... excessive.

This is a rough draft, but I agree that it's complicated. One way I plan to mitigate the confusion is to use group XP, as in I add up the XP at the end of a session and divide it equally. The tough thing is that I need to catch all the instances where exploration xp is granted. It's something I will be refining and improving, if only to make it easier on myself.

Luckily, the group with which I play will help out with some of this. For example, someone would be responsible for adding all the hexes that were crossed during the session.

I plan on showing this idea to the "rules lawyer" of our group and anybody else who happens to be present. If he (they)gives me "wtf are you thinking?" look, then I'll know I need to change things drastically. I might even need to trash the idea. OTOH, if my idea makes sense to him (them), then I know I'm onto something.

I'd tone gold down to 10gp = 1xp, because players are already on the lookout for loot, and giving them straight xp is going to encourage them to steal everything that isn't nailed down and try and sell it (for xp). Gold gained from friendly creatures will not be counted towards XP. This includes fellow party members, the six friendly tribes, and any creature that the party has gained XP for turning attitude to friendly.

No gold xp gained from friendlies, this includes: Other party members, the six friendly tribes, and any hostile creature that has changed attitude to friendly.

What purpose does XP and leveling serve in your campaign?

The purpose of XP in this particular campaign setting (i.e. the Isle of Dread mini-sandbox) is to encourage players to explore and seek treasure.

"Explore" means discover new things (e.g. crossing unexplored area, encountering a monster, investigating structures, discovering artifacts of historical of significance.)

"Seek treasure" means finding caches of loot while exploring.

Leveling allows the party to explore more dangerous parts of the setting.

What kind of story are you trying to tell?

It's the story about a group who explore the Isle of Dread looking for loot and adventure. I know it sounds pretty vague, but I've learned to rely on the other folks at my table. Together we create the story.

I will certainly provide several adventure hooks at the beginning. Though in the end, everything the story is reliant upon what interests the players [ETA] and their choices.

I've abandoned XP in my games and decided to simply grant people levels when I think it is appropriate for the story

Totally legit way of doing things and something I've done in the past. A sandbox style of gaming seems to clash with this style of leveling, though. One of the strengths of this module is that it can be played as an open (mini) setting, where the party can (attempt) to go where they want.

I love this idea. I agree with other posters that it may be slightly too complicated. But I don't have a great suggestion for how to streamline it.

Thank you! Hopefully the players will be just as enthused! It's good to know my OP wasn't just long-winded gibberish.

I'll entertain any suggestion that'll help refine these ideas, even bad ones. So feel free to suggest anything towards this end.

The xp reward for a level-appropriate monster, is what.

Why bother, right?

IMO, the Isle of Dread module is all about exploring (I define exploring earlier in this post) and getting some of that sweet sweet loot. Monsters are only part of the exploration, and not the main part. Mostly they're just obstacles standing in the way and not the goal. I want the players to focus on those goals rather than the obstacles (e.g. monsters, hazards, and traps).

Something to keep in mind is that campaign will start and end within the Isle of Dread setting. So I'm safe to tailor house rules that will only work within its confines without worrying about future implications for expanding the campaign.



Something else I plan on using is hex gaming paper, which is just wrapping paper with hexes (i own a 12 foot roll). I'll transfer the player's map onto the paper and it will be set in the middle of the table during each session. It's the players' responsibility to mark down what they have explored.

I recreated the Karameikos map for B10 Night's Dark Terror in this manner and it helped immensely.

 

[CapnZapp]

Why bother, right?

IMO, the Isle of Dread module is all about exploring (I define exploring earlier in this post) and getting some of that sweet sweet loot. Monsters are only part of the exploration, and not the main part. Mostly they're just obstacles standing in the way and not the goal. I want the players to focus on those goals rather than the obstacles (e.g. monsters, hazards, and traps).

Perhaps I should apologize for being unclear.

I didn't mean to suggest you add more monsters.

I meant you reuse the same xp amounts for your exploration xp awards.

The xp you get from defeating an Orc, or a Tyrannosaurus Rex, is calibrated to be X % of what a level-appropriate party needs to level up. Perhaps a first level party and a sixth level party, respectively.

A standard Orc (CR 1/2) is worth 100 xp. That's 1/12th the amount a four man party needs to level up to level 2.

A Tyrannosaurus Rex (CR 8) is worth 3,900 xp. That's about 1/14th of what the party needs to level from 6 to 7.

I am merely suggesting that instead of painstakingly computing all these new tables, you instead say that "trivial exploration of safe hex" might be worth the same xp as defeating an Orc: 100 xp.

While, I dunno, the complete exploration of Volcano of Doom is worth a Rex, or 3900 xp.

Instead of doing all the calculations over again, just assign CR ratings to your various achievements.

 

[not-so-newguy]

Instead of doing all the calculations over again, just assign CR ratings to your various achievements.

Aha! Now I'm picking up what you're putting down. Something definitely worth looking into. Thanks!