Dragonlance "You walk down the road, party is now level 2."

[Horwath]

Yes, unfortunately they are. The Vecna adventure is worse as it’s a level after every encounter. You never get to play with your toys anymore. The designers do NOT know how to run adventures anymore. It’s a bunch of exposition and background the a fight or two the in to the next chapter which is the next level.

meat of the play is 5-13(ish) and they know that, there are not many toys to play before level 5.

I like the 1 or 2 sessions(mostly 1 session) for levels 1-4, then things can slow down to 3-5 sessions per level.

 

[tetrasodium]

No, No 5E is not based upon such an assumption.
Maybe you and many others have made such assumptions, but our group gave that assumption up about D&D about 40 years ago. Even when Gary was running his killer DM games, many people playing D&D were not playing it that way.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...

You are arguing a technicality that does nothing to address or justify the reasons why so much of 5e design suddenly makes logical sense once that assumption is applied. Wotc choosing to double down & let it ride with 5.24 rather than address the underlying structures that lead to those assumptions is a pretty strong indicator that either it is the design intent or continuing to encourage the symptoms themselves in play is the desired outcome by wotc/Hasbro in ways that make the technicality into a point without relevance.

 

[LordEntrails]

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...

You are arguing a technicality that does nothing to address or justify the reasons why so much of 5e design suddenly makes logical sense once that assumption is applied. Wotc choosing to double down & let it ride with 5.24 rather than address the underlying structures that lead to those assumptions is a pretty strong indicator that either it is the design intent or continuing to encourage the symptoms themselves in play is the desired outcome by wotc/Hasbro in ways that make the technicality into a point without relevance.

Disagree. I just don't see it. You're going to have to start another thread and really lay out your hypothesis if you want to discuss in detail.

I think it's more likely the assumption has changed to be that for most players, they are casual and are not interested in a risky game where their characters are at risk of losing or dying and are simple more interested in building hero stories and spending time with their friends.

 

[tetrasodium]

Disagree. I just don't see it. You're going to have to start another thread and really lay out your hypothesis if you want to discuss in detail.

I think it's more likely the assumption has changed to be that for most players, they are casual and are not interested in a risky game where their characters are at risk of losing or dying and are simple more interested in building hero stories and spending time with their friends.

You presented a false dichotomy as the crux of your position. There is a wide ocean between those two styles and you paint one as an extreme unworthy of depth while using a questionable description of non-exclusive vestigial elements that makes the actual extreme created by rules seem rather mundane. This thread alone is rooted in one of the omissions (ultra fast progression) that you left out.

 

[Lanefan]

I think it's more likely the assumption has changed to be that for most players, they are casual and are not interested in a risky game where their characters are at risk of losing or dying and are simple more interested in building hero stories and spending time with their friends.

The assumption that most players are casual* is, IMO, correct. That they're largely interested in spending time with their friends is also correct.

After that, however, it gets less accurate. I'd say that instead of the bolded it's more the case that they largely don't care about the risk or loss or character death or any of that as long as they're all having fun in the process.

As for "building hero stories", that's a wide open question; I suspect it's more DMs than players who care about that side of it.

* - as we hardcore types on these boards would view them, anyway.

 

[LordEntrails]

You presented a false dichotomy as the crux of your position. There is a wide ocean between those two styles and you paint one as an extreme unworthy of depth while using a questionable description of non-exclusive vestigial elements that makes the actual extreme created by rules seem rather mundane. This thread alone is rooted in one of the omissions (ultra fast progression) that you left out.

I intended my response to be a very simple and brief presentation of the dichotomy that you do not agree with. I thought I made it clear that if you wanted to discuss in detail, then you need to provide a detailed hypothesis. When you do that, then perhaps we can get into a detailed analysis and word smithing discussion.

 

[DarkCrisis]

3 players this week. Lots of combat.

Sleep just seems broken. Hits multiple enemies (warp around heroes) and fail one save to basically miss a turn then sleep. No level/HD limit. Twice the Mage took out an Ogre boss with it.

So does a Paladin's smite but whatever. One shotting 22 HP mooks just seems insane to me.

Despite again being "run 1 session and gain a level" level 3-4 felt earned but only because it was 3 PCs. I imagine the standard recommended 4-5 PCs would have stomped things without me adding in more enemies.
.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Double post

 

[Lanefan]

3 players this week. Lots of combat.

Sleep just seems broken. Hits multiple enemies (warp around heroes) and fail one save to basically miss a turn then sleep. No level/HD limit. Twice the Mage took out an Ogre boss with it.

Easy fix: knock out the "warp around heroes" piece and just make Sleep be pure area-effect, meaning if cast into melee it'll take out friend and foe alike.

 

[Distracted DM]

3 players this week. Lots of combat.

Sleep just seems broken. Hits multiple enemies (warp around heroes) and fail one save to basically miss a turn then sleep. No level/HD limit. Twice the Mage took out an Ogre boss with it.

So does a Paladin's smite but whatever. One shotting 22 HP mooks just seems insane to me.

Despite again being "run 1 session and gain a level" level 3-4 felt earned.

I'm guessing this is the new 5e24 Sleep?