G1 - Steading of the Hill Giant (advice)

Giants have gotten tougher with each edition of D&D so you should probably pare down the number of giants in the steading, and glacial rift, and halls of the fire giant king rather than try to use the 1st edition monster placement for a 3E game. Assume that giants will not miss the average PC on their first attack because of their huge strength bonuses. You might want to provide extra healing magic sprinkled about if you want to avoid a TPK.
 

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I havent run the modules but heres a few idea

If you plan on running the full G-Q campaign in the FR

Replace the Frost Giant Jarl with Gerti from the Silver Marches

If your reading RAS latest Drizzt novels you'll know that the Drow are involved with the Frost Giants (in G3 The drow are involved with the Fire Giants)

Vault of the Drow could be converted to Menzoberranzan or Ched Nesad.

Queen of the Demon pits could be tied into the WOSQ series of novels "Why isnt Lolth answering the Drows prayers?"

Theres also a nation of Giants north of the Silver Marches if your looking for somewhere else to set it
 
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frog said:
Played it for 3.0. The party was 3 lvl 11 (cleric, wizard, fighter), 1 lvl 10 (barbarian), 1 lvl 8 (druid) and 1 dire bear animal companion.

If it weren't for the dire bear they all would have died horribly. Two of the party had wands for healing and basically spent the whole time healing the bear, barbarian, and fighter. Otherwise, toast.

The bottom level ended up in a truce with the orcs who started their rebellion when the party attacked (they figured something was up when the flamestrikes went off all over) and the party only finding the secondary treasure room. They completely missed the primary treasury.

Well, I suppose I can consider it spoiled

* SPOILER ANYWAY! *

so our trick was first to sneak in invisibly and scout the place, with the additional mission of poisoning the wine, since we had learned there was a feast taking place from other sources. We secretly contacted an orc and my bard PC (introducing himself as "Unseen Fang" - Secret Orc) basically bamboozled her into thinking we were the spearhead of a big orc rebellion against the giants. We didn't know the orcs were already up in arms, but since it happened that they were, the kitchen slaves were only too glad to help us spike half the wine supply with giant centipede venom (a spoonful of Prestidigitation takes the edge off too). Then while the giants were busy poisoning themselves at the big feast, the rogue and the bard with loads of sneaking magic invisibly and sneakily flew into the pantry with the rest of the party stuffed in a bag of holding. We planned it out so that nobody was in there long enough to suffocate, though obviously there was a risk. Once we debagged, the bard used Sculpt Sound to make the basement sound like it did when we got there (to cover the screams of our hapless victims), and we crept down the stairs. With some clever uses of Invis and Silence, etc., we managed to take out every giant in the basement without the others knowing, linked up to the orcs (very happy to join us), and secured the stairway, where we laid an ambush. Then we just picked off ogres etc. as they came down the stairs for provisions, even a giant at one point, when someone wondered what was keeping the ogres. In the meantime, we found the treasure room, and then the secret passage. Well, we couldn't resist the secret passage, so we followed it up... into the middle of Nosra's quarters, where - by some strange coincidence - Nosra was laid up nearly incapacitated with "drunkeness". Quite dishonorably, we killed him in his bed, though he did manage to nail the half-orc pretty hard with a bedpan. We got found out at that point, and so we raced back down into the dungeon and holed up with the orcs overnight.
Of course the giants were ready for us the next day (at least the ones who weren't dead or poisoned), but by then we had a host of jubilant orc allies to absorb hits and all our spells back (plus a few level raises), so we managed to fight our way out. We came back the next day, I believe ,and wiped out most of the tribe after collapsing the roof of the stead on a number of them.

And here's the good part - the party cleric had died the day before we hit the stead, when he tried to wrestle a dire wolf..., so we did the whole first day without a cleric, just healing from a handful of potions, the bard, the monk, and a low-level druid. Come to think of it, I guess we were in the 9th-10th range, since I'd just gotten Inspire Greatness. Had a rogue 6/ranger 3 (or so, but with fav enemy giant), barb 8/rang 1, bard 8/barb 1, sorc 7/druid 2, monk 10.
 
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Henry said:
One of the nice things is that by 9th level, the PC's will be able to infiltrate the Giants in ways that 1st edition parties never could. Parties of 1E characters were usually 5th to 7th level by the time they got there; 5th and 6th level characters could not Poly self into a hill giant, and their rogues were not that great at sneaking about. Nowadays, a 9th level PC party has tons of ways to infiltrate. The nice thing here is that they can get glimpses of all the NPC interactions and politics going on in those modules - some cool stuff, indeed.

OTOH, if you expect your PC's to brute force their way in, they should be in about as much trouble as a head strong party back in 1E would be - which is to say, they'd be screwed. The optimum tactics for this module in 1E was to be sneaky and hit and run as much as possible, or be stealthy and check things out. This should hold true for a 3E retelling.



Henry,

the recommended level for G1 back in the day was higher. 8th was the lowest. with a party size much larger than the newer editions.

in my experience it was best run with a party of 6 to 9 PCs (plus their henchmen, hirelings, companions, followers) of lvls 8 to 12.


don't forget 1 hill giant in 1edADnD was basically = to an 8th lvl fighter....

although later play with the higher stat rolling introduced with the UA... a 6th lvl fighter with high Str, Dex, and Con might also do it.
 

dargoth3 said:
I havent run the modules but heres a few idea

If you plan on running the full G-Q campaign in the FR

Replace the Frost Giant Jarl with Gerti from the Silver Marches

If your reading RAS latest Drizzt novels you'll know that the Drow are involved with the Frost Giants (in G3 The drow are involved with the Fire Giants)

Vault of the Drow could be converted to Menzoberranzan or Ched Nesad.

Queen of the Demon pits could be tied into the WOSQ series of novels "Why isnt Lolth answering the Drows prayers?"

Theres also a nation of Giants north of the Silver Marches if your looking for somewhere else to set it
Ice mountains I believe, or the ice sea? No book, at work, lousy memory. I haven't used drow IMC yet so I'm still debating whether or not to include this whole Lolth is missing thing, I'll burn that bridge soon enough.

don't forget 1 hill giant in 1edADnD was basically = to an 8th lvl fighter....

although later play with the higher stat rolling introduced with the UA... a 6th lvl fighter with high Str, Dex, and Con might also do it.
Oddly enough, if you go straight by CR rating they're pretty close to that in 3.x too. 1st and 3rd ed. are like peas and carrots. :)
 

tarchon said:
And here's the good part - the party cleric had died the day before we hit the stead, when he tried to wrestle a dire wolf..., so we did the whole first day without a cleric, just healing from a handful of potions, the bard, the monk, and a low-level druid. Come to think of it, I guess we were in the 9th-10th range, since I'd just gotten Inspire Greatness. Had a rogue 6/ranger 3 (or so, but with fav enemy giant), barb 8/rang 1, bard 8/barb 1, sorc 7/druid 2, monk 10.
Here's the kicker, they don't have a cleric. Never have. They travel light, carry potions and run away a lot. :D
 

diaglo said:
Henry,

the recommended level for G1 back in the day was higher. 8th was the lowest. with a party size much larger than the newer editions.

Sorry - I misremembered - I could have sworn the second page said, "6 to 9 characters of 5 to 10th level."

In any event, stealth is still the better way to go, or the giants will kick serious butt.
 
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DaveStebbins said:
It was several years ago and written for a previous edition, but the following story segments, written by Jason Zavoda, had some excellent ideas in them.

I haven't read the fiction, but I remember teh original posts Jason made that predated the fiction on r.g.f.dnd. There were a couple of posts that detailed out some ideas on nearby clans and their response to an assault on the Steading, as well as some info on Giantish culture. I've got them saved on my home PC, and they're not too large. I'll hunt them down and post them tonight.
 

It's an interesting testament to most D&D players' mindset that almost all the stories I've ever heard about taking on the Steading had the PCs attacking the revelers head on. Half of those stories had the PCs dieing, and the other half had the PCs retreating. It is the rare game where the PCs realized that with the giants all in the main room partying, they had free reign throughout most of the fort.

I think it should be pretty obvious from the way the adventure is written, that the PCs should use stealth to take on the Steading. Heck, the main front guards are drunk and asleep, if memory serves (book at home). With the noise in the main hall, combat in the surrounding areas would be unnoticed.

Especially in D&D3, with giants so much more powerful than in AD&D1, the PCs should not even consider a frontal assault, or any kind of straight-up fight. If the PCs realize the opportunity they have, they could take many hours of exploration in the Steading, ambushing loan enemies, making alliances with the slaves, and then taking on sleeping and/or solidly drunk giants one at a time. And all the while they have that game-enhancing tension of "when will the party end?".

But, alas, most PCs probably won't think of that.

Quasqueton
 

Mystery Man said:
Here's the kicker, they don't have a cleric. Never have. They travel light, carry potions and run away a lot. :D

Inspire Greatness was really the key - that's worth like 20 hit points on a typical raging half-orc 9th level barbarian.
 

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