G1 - Steading of the Hill Giant (advice)

[diaglo]

give the hint of tactics to the players from a wise ancient possibly infirmed dwarf.

don't move the mountain... make mohammed come to you. use doorways. many times giants can't squeeze thru or bull rush a blocked doorway while taking AoO from PCs flanking either side.

use ranged weapons and limits of vision.


so the giants hall is all lit up at the table. make sure the PCs don't use light at their end until necessary. give them the advantage of attacking from the dark/sly with ranged weapons.

provoke the giants into splitting up their forces. the chief orders them to circle around the doorway the PCs are attacking from... the PCs attack smaller groups... hit and run style.

make sure they scout ahead with invisibilty... but not too far ahead...due to the animals sense of smell.


use smoke and mirrors. illusion of escaping PCs or feinting to hint at other attackers.... possibly a large invasion force of PCs...

give the players some clues.

unless you tone the encounters down a lot that is.

 

[Mystery Man]

give the hint of tactics to the players from a wise ancient possibly infirmed dwarf.

That part is covered. I think.

Somewhere in the Evermoors they will meet Tor. Tor is a stone giant from Ysgard come to Toril on a quest of his own keeping. He is old, and set in his ways, and a very powerful rune caster. He has contempt for hill giants, grudging respect for the abilities of frost giants, and loathing for fire giants. He regards the little races with curiousity and amusment. If suitably impressed, he will give advice, offer aid and healing etc., but only if they prove their worth. It would behoove the players to take him up on it, and it should prove interesting if they accept his task......

 

[the Jester]

run away a lot.

That's the spirit! (In G1, at least...)

 

[diaglo]

give them a place to hide too.

when i ran this one... the pcs left their camp followers in a nearby wayside inn... miles away.

after they ran the first time. they realized they needed somewhere closer to recouperate. so they scouted out a small cave.

of course, occupied by a small band of orcs guarding a chest of treasure. ... no not really but i couldn't help myself from adding that to this thread.

anyway... they made camp nearer and made sure to cover their tracks to and from the place. as they did recon. back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

finally they assaulted the main hall. it was an epic battle....they almost survived.



so keys include... a place to hide/recoup, some help to guard their location and supplies, a way to come and go as often is as necessary, no random encounters.... (okay we had random encounter tables... but i never had any luck rolling any... i sucked at rolling back then), resources...tons and tons of resources (healing potions,wands, scrolls or in the newer editions possibly a ring or ioun stone of fast healing), and luck

 

[ruleslawyer]

OK, if y'all didn't know this already,












SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER!


Mystery Man,

I'm dividing my post into two parts: Mechanics and campaign development.

Mechanics
There are some conversions floating around; take a look on this site under the Conversions link. I've done my own (much more detailed) conversion, but it's not OGC and as such I can't post it under that forum.

In general, the ELs in G1 range from 7-11 using a straight conversion, making the module (IMHO) appropriate for 4 9th-level PCs, or a strong, stealthy, or cohort/animal companion-laden 8th-level group. The Great Hall is MUCH tougher, especially if you give the chieftain and his wife class levels. However, it is my opinion that even in the 1e version, the Great Hall was never meant to be the site of an open battle; no 8th-level PC party could have deployed the firepower necessary to take on 20 hill giants!

The big problem, IMHO, is the sudden jump in ELs between G1 and G2 (assuming you go that route). While G2 and G3 have a relatively smooth EL progression even if converted in an encounter-for-encounter fashion, G2 really requires an 11th-level party to survive it, and probably works best with a 12th-level party, unless you seriously reduce the number of giants.

Finally, there are the dragons. Simply put: Rewrite the dragon encounters entirely. I'd even consider substituting other monsters; IMHO, there are just too many dragon encounters in existing modules to add more.

Campaign:
As with most EGG modules, G1 was originally written for tournament play. However, it's easy to jazz it up for your campaign, especially given how well the module dovetails with the official line on the Silver Marches. I'd suggest the following:

1) Strongly consider NOT running G1 as a standalone. It has much more flavor if you put it in the context of the other modules in its series or, perhaps even better yet, the entire G/D/Q supermodule!

A big problem with G1 is that the principal adversaries therein are, of course, hill giants: big, dumb, straightforward monsters. The intrigue to G1 centers on the forces controlling the giants rather than the monsters themselves. So a key thing is to play this up! Focus on the non-hill giant NPCs in module. There are stone giant emissaries, perhaps trying to plead diplomatically with their lesser cousins to cease their fierce hostilities against the Silver Marches. There are potentially disgruntled bugbear, orc, and ogre slaves, who perhaps seek to overthrow their larger masters. There is the cloud giant emissary: What's he doing there? Perhaps he's being recruited by the force motivating the hill giants, but seeks to take direct control for himself.

2) Whether or not you run G1 as part of a series, a motivating force is critical. One option, that would work quite well IMHO, is to use Gerti Orelsdottr (and, if you want to get REALLY nasty, her circle of frost giant runecasters) as the BBEG(s). You then could consider running G1 (set in the Crags, perhaps, or just deep within the Evermoors), then have an interim adventure during which the PCs travel north to the Spine of the World and lands beyond, wherein lair Gerti and her compatriots; the Spine is notoriously dangerous, so encounters with everything from stray forces of Obould's to "madbeard" insane dwarves could be possible. Eventually, the party could arrive at a modified version of G2, to fight their way through frost giants and cold creatures to Gerti's lair. (Note; Gerti is, by 3.5 MM standards, a CR 13-14 encounter; you might consider either boosting her levels a bit or giving her some runecaster support, or both, depending on party strength.)

Another option, of course, is to use the structure in GDQ1-7, which really does work quite well in a Silver Marches context. (After all, all the parties concerned do hate the Marches!) If this is just too many giants for ya, consider cutting out most of G3 (it's difficult to place fire giants in the North, after all) and adding Level Two of G3 as an additional level to G2 (replacing all fire giants with frost giants, of course).

3) Keep in mind that in this sort of module, it is paramount to have dynamic rather than static encounters. The major problem with G1 at first glance is that it seems to follow a tedious pattern of "open door, see giant, bash." However, if you run the Steading as a living, breathing entity, and move giants around the place as though they actually lived there, it becomes easier to deal with. This also has the advantage of allowing you to cut down on the sheer number of giant encounters; assume that many of the giants are out (on raids for instance), that at least some of the 20 giants encountered in the Great Hall live elsewhere in the Steading, and that their rooms are currently vacant rather than occupied by still more giants, and that the place is alive with slaves scurrying around on tasks (and full of gossip and information available to the party with the right spells!), and you'll have a place in which the players will be really excited to snoop about.

4) IMX, the best storytelling in this module will come about from the players' own decisions. I've suggested some NPC motivations and interactions that you can play up; however, some more possibilities are suggested by the following:
-Dressing as giant younglings: If the PCs go this route, they can have some very interesting interactions, especially with the giant matrons.
-Slave rebellion! If the PCs are smart, they may try to rile up the disgruntled slaves against their giant masters; this actually happened IMC!
-Prisoners: Prisoners are always fun. The unknown NPC dwarf in the forge area can be fleshed out nicely to make for a great NPC.

 

[Mystery Man]

give them a place to hide too.

Awesome, I had not thought of that.

so keys include... a place to hide/recoup, some help to guard their location and supplies, a way to come and go as often is as necessary, no random encounters.... (okay we had random encounter tables... but i never had any luck rolling any... i sucked at rolling back then), resources...tons and tons of resources (healing potions,wands, scrolls or in the newer editions possibly a ring or ioun stone of fast healing), and luck

Great ideas thanks!

 

[Mystery Man]

Mechanics
There are some conversions floating around; take a look on this site under the Conversions link. I've done my own (much more detailed) conversion, but it's not OGC and as such I can't post it under that forum.

If you don't mind and like to share, I'd love to take a look. If you hove it in electronic form that is. I'm about halfway done with my own conversion using some of what is on ENworld.

Finally, there are the dragons. Simply put: Rewrite the dragon encounters entirely. I'd even consider substituting other monsters; IMHO, there are just too many dragon encounters in existing modules to add more.

consider it done

Campaign:
As with most EGG modules, G1 was originally written for tournament play. However, it's easy to jazz it up for your campaign, especially given how well the module dovetails with the official line on the Silver Marches. I'd suggest the following:

<snip>

I am in fact, running a ongoing campaign in the Silver Marches. And in fact the G123 series is a great foundation with which to build on what I want to do. And you have as a matter of fact given me some great ideas. Thanks much!

 

[ashockney]

If you don't mind and like to share, I'd love to take a look. If you hove it in electronic form that is. I'm about halfway done with my own conversion using some of what is on ENworld.


consider it done


I am in fact, running a ongoing campaign in the Silver Marches. And in fact the G123 series is a great foundation with which to build on what I want to do. And you have as a matter of fact given me some great ideas. Thanks much!

If I recall this correctly, I think the GDQ series culminates in the prime material plane (Greyhawk) in a little slice of the abyss, that Llolth has planted right on the prime material, in an attempt to take over part of the plane. The giants, et al, are her minions helping to cause chaos and anarchy to the powerful nearby ruling nations. I ran a similiar campaign based on the above a few years back, and plopped Lllolth's tower smack dab in the middle of the ruins of Hellgate Keep, with the giants and drow harrassing the kingdom of Lurien, and settlement of Evereska.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Originally posted by Jason Zavoda (who is not me) on Usenet, five years ago (in the 2E days), but still good stuff.

Hill Giant halls are for the most part long houses with a central
firepit. One end of the great hall would be the Kitchen/pantry with a
root cellar/cold room dug underneath. Some of these small steadings will
enclose these areas to separate them from the great hall but most still
have them unseparated.

The central hall has a raised platform along the center area of
one wall where the hill giant chief, his family and sub-chief or chiefs
eat or gather. Opposite this raised platform, along the wall, are the long
tables and benches for the chiefs followers.

The entrance to the chief and subchiefs quarters is behind the
tables on the raised platform. A guard will normally be posted outside
this door at night and when the hall is not in use. These quarters are
broken up into several rooms for the chief and his subchief, sometimes a
childrens room and usually a private meeting room. The larger the steading
the more rooms in the chiefs quarters. There will normally be a treasure
room under the chiefs quarters.

The other end of the great hall will have a wing either on the
same side as the chiefs quarters or opposite for the all male barracks.
These normally serve as a guardpost for the entrance way into the hall
and bachelor quarters for unmarried hill giants. The entranceway will
sometimes be directly through these quarters but usually the barracks are
simply adjacent to the entry room.

Entranceways have a set of sturdy outer doors, an entrance room
where heavy cloaks and garments can be hung from pegs along the wall,
and a set of inner doors, sometimes leading to the great hall itself or
into the guardpost/barracks.

Opposite the barracks will be a series of family chambers for the
married hill giants.

The great hall of these steadings is normally festooned with
trophies, shields, weaponry and treasures. Personal weapons are stored
in the giants quarters or carried with them, though personal shields are
normally hung on the walls of the great hall. Larger steadings may have a
separate room for an armory or even trophies but that is a rarity and
Nosnra's steading is a sort of Camelot among hill giant steadings

The steadings in the Jotuns tend to be of wood but can also
be of stone and turf.

Outside of the steading will be an animal pen for Dire wolves
and usually the animal handlers hut. Water for the steading will be a
spring, well or nearby stream. Along one outside wall there will be small
huts for Bugbear and Ogre servants with a slave pen attached normally
containing orc slaves. There will be a separate smithie/hut for the
blacksmith away from the main building normally constructed of stone and
turf (the giants are aware of the fire danger)

Greyhawk Hill Giants (IMC) have an affinity for earth and wood
and are competent masons and especially carpenters of the rough and sturdy
sort. They build their steadings as protection from the elements rather
than as defensive structures since they tend to be the top of the food
chain in most areas. While they use shields and weapons they disdain the
use of armor. They usually keep some pebbles (bowling ball size) on them
to kill small game( The use of bound dwarven prisoners for target practice
is commonly thought of as the origin of bowling).

Hill giants usually marry for life and Hill giant males are
encouraged to take brides from neighboring steadings rather than from
their own. Brides are provided with a dowry but the male hill giant must
provide a trophy or treasure presented to the steadings chief to prove his
worth. Male hill giants must go on a quest to win such a trophy or
treasure and relate the story of its acquisition. The bride will memorize
this story and will retell it at all future hill giant wedding ceremonies.
The male hill giant must first ask the steading chief for the right to
go on this quest, the Chief will accept or reject this request depending
on the object of the quest. (Killing a famed monster, stealing herd
animals from an enemy steading { the head or horns from one of these
animals would be the trophy kept by the chief, as well as all the
stolen animals}, raiding a human or demi-human settlement and returning
with heads or treasure, etc...)

The wedding ceremony takes place at the brides steading, all married
hill giantesses will tell the story of their husbands quest, the hill
giant chief will display the treasure or trophy related in each story.
He will then bind the brides right hand to the grooms left with a circlet
of gold or silver, present them with the dowry (usually clothes and boots
for the couple, a few herd animals, a weapon for the male hill giant and
a shield to be carried by the female hill giantess {this shield is
constructed by the bride during the male hill giants quest and is burned
if he fails or is killed in his quest}, these dowry gifts are added upon
by the brides family and in the case of a chiefs daughter can include
treasure, slaves, etc...) Then the bride and groom leave for the
grooms steading, the bride is now a part of the grooms family will
never return to her parents. At the grooms steading they will be feasted
and a room set aside for them in the married quarters, gifts of bedding,
chests and furnishings for their quarters are then given.

Hill giants & giantesses marry once. If either are killed they
will not remarry.

There is a noticeable absence of the elderly among hill giants.
When age begins to reduce their physical abilities hill giants will
begin doing what is referred to as "fighting the bear". Both male and
female hill giants will take off on their own and search out monsters to
fight. If successful they prove that they are still worthy of their
position in the steading They are not physically forced to do so but go
out and "fight the bear" voluntarily. Hill giants who do not choose to do
so lose the respect of their fellows and are shunned and ridiculed.
Eventually they will go out and not return.

Hill giant dead are normally left for the beasts or monsters of
the wild. They are left at the bases of great trees, on top a rocky
mountain sides or where they have fallen. They are arranged as if they
have fallen asleep, their weapon and shield are taken with them. Hill
Giants need fear nothing, even in death their own strength is enough.
weapons are returned to the chief of the steading and shields are burned
with ceremony to honour the fallen.

Hill giants survive on hunting and cattle, a steading will have a
herd of some sort nearby. The distance between steadings and their size is
usually do to the amount of grazing land or wild beasts in the area.
Hill giants will eat almost any type of monster or animal, they will
rarely eat humans or demi-humans, but needs must at times.

Hill giants are not solitary by habit, even herdsman will have
slaves of some sort, as well as ogre or bugbear servants out among the
grazing lands. They are fairly social and even rival steadings will
join in yearly and sometimes quarterly gatherings. A strong chieftain
can overawe neighboring steadings and gain their support in mass raids
and defensive gatherings. Often they will be on good relations with
other types of Giants, cloud, frost, fire, stone and will
have formed pacts or alliances. Alliances with cloud giants are rare, but
at times this lofty race likes to have ties to the ground and hill giants
often act as their eyes and ears in a rough way. Cloud giants look upon
the hill giants as their dumb cousins while there is a general respect
among hill giants for the cloud giants size and strength. Stone giants
are held in high regard for their ability as mason and builders.

Wealthy chieftains search them out and pay fabulous sums for their help
in expanding and reenforcing their steadings. Pacts and alliances between
fire and frost giants are uncommon mostly because of the difference in
their choice of environments. There is no love lost between these types of
giants normally and if the hill giant lands interested either the
frost or fire giants there would most likely be war between the three.

I had the typical hall with 10 male Hill Giants and had on
average five such halls in each hex of the Jotuns which worked out to
about 2,000 male hill giant warriors. Nosnra had aligned with all the
surrounding steadings and could call on about 350 hill giants total
(though that number would leave all of their steadings undefended)
and was expanding his sphere of influence at the time of module G1.

Jason Zavoda

 

[Endur]

My 1e party had two wizards in it, one 7th and one 8th. We surprised the hill giants in the great hall. Two fireballs. We won initiative on the first round. Two more fireballs. There were no live giants by the time we got to their initiative.

However, it is my opinion that even in the 1e version, the Great Hall was never meant to be the site of an open battle; no 8th-level PC party could have deployed the firepower necessary to take on 20 hill giants!