Gabe (Penny Arcades) take on Essentials Red Box

[Gort]

I honestly find it stupefying that anyone could have a different opinion on this matter.

You're like this on all topics, though

 

[jester_gl]

Using pirates to protect the book against ninjas might work, but the pirates will just run away with the booty. The books will be intact, but now only pirates will be able to play old 4th d&d.

 

[Stumblewyk]

Using pirates to protect the book against ninjas might work, but the pirates will just run away with the booty. The books will be intact, but now only pirates will be able to play old 4th d&d.

Curses! Is no one safe from WotC's predatory marketing techniques?!?

 

[webrunner]

Using pirates to protect the book against ninjas might work, but the pirates will just run away with the booty. The books will be intact, but now only pirates will be able to play old 4th d&d.

Why would they bother? All the pirates already have PDF copies.

 

[The Human Target]

Did he play the game with a combination of Essentials and 4E stuff?

No.

Did he mention or see any of the changes Essentials will seemingly cause to the older 4E books?

No.

Does this answer all the concerns that people have about Essentials?

Not even slightly.

 

[MrGrenadine]

Did he play the game with a combination of Essentials and 4E stuff?

No.

Did he mention or see any of the changes Essentials will seemingly cause to the older 4E books?

No.

Does this answer all the concerns that people have about Essentials?

Not even slightly.

Yeah, this thread is pretty incredible. "Someone who we think is cool agrees with our opinion, so now we KNOW our opinion is right." And the posts about people worrying about WotC destroying their old books? Hilarious! (the first hundred or so times, anyway.)

Listen, I think the Penny Arcade guys are terrific, too. And I love that they love the game as much as I do, and are talking it up and getting other folks excited about it.

But the fact that Gabe thinks Essentials isn't a new version is just an opinion, like any other opinion.

Here's the facts: Essentials is not 4.5, because WotC has said its not 4.5.


However, whether or not Essentials is enough of a evolution of the system to warrant being called 4.x is completely up for discussion, with sane, reasonable people on both sides of the issue.


So why can't we discuss the issue in a sane and reasonable way? Probably because, rather than actually listen and debate the merits of both points of view, its just more fun to loudly claim victory and try to make the opposing opinion seem ridiculous.

Its getting tiring.


p.s. Full disclosure: I play 4e. I love what I've read about Essentials so far. And I do think, over time, as more Essentials stuff is added, it will be a big enough evolution to warrant a 4.x tag.

 

[keterys]

I wonder if people have the same discussions about computer games, like WoW or Diablo, that do regular updates to add new options, tweak existing ones, etc. Ie, "Man, just call it WoW 2, if you're changing Hunters so much!" "Runes!? That's some crazy Diablo 2.5 nonsense."

 

[Stumblewyk]

Yeah, this thread is pretty incredible. "Someone who we think is cool agrees with our opinion, so now we KNOW our opinion is right." And the posts about people worrying about WotC destroying their old books? Hilarious! (the first hundred or so times, anyway.)

Actually, I think this thread is more like "Hey, someone who is a player and DM of 4e (not someone with an actual horse in the race) thinks this won't blow up what we've been doing for the last several years."

AFAIK, it's the first time we've heard from someone who isn't a representative of WotC, telling us how the system worked for him.

Did he play with Essentials characters side-by-side with pre-Essentials characters? No. I'll grant you that. But the relevant statement Gabe made was that he could see Essentials PCs standing up just fine next to pre-Essentials PCs without it hurting the game. I.E. they are compatible which repeats what WotC's been telling us about Essentials all along.

Does it settle the debate? Absolutely not. But like I said in this thread's second post - it should help ease the minds of "the End is nigh!" crowd.

And re: setting off the "ZOMG, Wizerdz will bern ther bookz!!!1!" posts, sorry if I've offended your gentle sensibilities. I figured it was an easy way to encapsulate the general mindset of the anti-Essentials crowd in a familiarly humorous way.

 

[webrunner]

However, whether or not Essentials is enough of a evolution of the system to warrant being called 4.x is completely up for discussion, with sane, reasonable people on both sides of the issue.

It's not up for discussion, it's clearly 4.Kettlechips. It's true because I said so.

 

[fanboy2000]

But the fact that Gabe thinks Essentials isn't a new version is just an opinion, like any other opinion.

True, but he's actually played the new Red Box, and I haven't. The opinion of someone who has actually played a game and has similar tastes to mine holds more weight with me than the opinion of someone who has different tastes and and hasn't played it.

It's like a movie critic, if you know a particular movie critic likes the same movies (generally) that you do, their recommendation holds more weight than other critics.

Here's the facts: Essentials is not 4.5, because WotC has said its not 4.5.

Honestly, I don't care what Wizards calls anything.

However, whether or not Essentials is enough of a evolution of the system to warrant being called 4.x is completely up for discussion, with sane, reasonable people on both sides of the issue.

No argument from me here.

So why can't we discuss the issue in a sane and reasonable way? Probably because, rather than actually listen and debate the merits of both points of view, its just more fun to loudly claim victory and try to make the opposing opinion seem ridiculous.

I hate to tell you this, but we're really just discussing a movie critics review. Meta-critisisim. This really isn't about 4.5. Not every Essentials thread is.

Sorry.

Its getting tiring.

Look, we just want to discuss, with some humor, one guy's review of the new Red Box and his opinion's on Essentials. There's a whole thread, Let's Call A Spade A Spade, about calling it 4.5. It's not like there is a lack of options for that kind of discussion.

p.s. Full disclosure: I play 4e. I love what I've read about Essentials so far. And I do think, over time, as more Essentials stuff is added, it will be a big enough evolution to warrant a 4.x tag.

O.k. Thanks for your opinion. So what do you think of Gabe's experiences with the new Red Box?