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WotC Gale Force 9 Sues WotC [Updated]

In the second lawsuit against WotC in recent weeks (Dragonlance authors Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman sued the company for breach of contract and other things about a month ago), Gale Force 9 is suing the company for breach of contract and implied duty of good faith.

Gale Force 9 produces miniatures, cards, DM screens, and other D&D accessories. They’re asking for damages of nearly a million dollars, as well as an injunction to prevent WotC from terminating the licensing contract.

From the suit, it looks like WotC wanted to end a licensing agreement a year early. When GF9 didn't agree to that, WotC indicated that they would refuse to approve any new licensed products from GF9. It looks like the same sort of approach they took with Weis and Hickman, which also resulted in a lawsuit. The dispute appears to relate to some product translations in non-US markets. More information as I hear it!

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UPDATE. GF9's CEO, Jean-Paul Brisigotti, spoke to ICv2 and said: "After twelve years of working with Wizards, we find ourselves in a difficult place having to utilize the legal system to try and resolve an issue we have spent the last six months trying to amicably handle between us without any success. We still hope this can be settled between us but the timeline for a legal resolution has meant we have been forced to go down this path at this time."

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Zardnaar

Legend
Well, yes we can all have a beer pizza still... as for the second. I’d hope your wife would be in the same room and you can both still drink your wine.

Yeah but you're not sharing the drinks around and socializing. I've got an IPA wanna swap on for a pilsner.

It's not the same.

Basically I would only do D&D online if option B was no D&D.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
Haven't seen how they play it in poorer parts of the world?


14:00 mark. Cheap way of playing it.

There's tens of millions of Americans struggling to eat. Alot of people don't have internet connections so they can't download free stuff.

I suspect ENworlds a bit of a bubble. Mostly professionals in their 30's to 50's.

It's a cheap hobby if you're a middle class American or other prosperous country.

It's not that cheap compared to some other activities.

Don't think to many people here are blue collar at least for a while. A few people right now can't afford blue collar let alone white ones.

D&D's mostly a middle class white persons game. Probably because they can afford it. First world problems.

I'm pretty late here, but this is indeed a massive generalization. Obviously there are extremely poor areas of the world (and in America) where people cannot afford a basic level of housing and food. Getting a $30 book for these people would be a very frivolous expense, compared to kicking around a football (or soccer) ball.

That said, the definition of what poverty is in America (and most of developed Europe) is very different than that in Eastern Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa. 81% of Americans own a smartphone. Not a cell phone, a smartphone. Many of these Americans are still struggling to meet their rent payments, and fall underneath the poverty line. But that has less to do with with the cost of goods, and more to do with the high cost of housing in many areas of this country (especially in urban areas, where there are more available jobs). The median cost of monthly rent in the US is more than $1,000.

Anyway, I'm not trying to pull a talking point and say "poor people aren't actually poor" (I'm not, rent is extremely high, plus other costs like education or payday debt driving Americans further into poverty). But a $30 payment for a book is well within reach for the vast majority of Americans. The bigger barrier is less the cost, and more the time one has to sink into it, and competing for other hobbies like sports (playing or watching), TV, and other forms of socializing.

EDIT: And the real cost of D&D for a truly new player should be the starter set, not the PHB (so they can have dice etc.) so about $25. Plus, (trade secret here) you actually don't need any of that, because the basic rules are online and if you have internet at all (and the vast majority of Americans do) you can roll dice online. So really, if you're really needing money, you don't need to spend any dollars at all.

 
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MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Anyway, I'm not trying to pull a talking point and say "poor people aren't actually poor" (I'm not, rent is extremely high, plus other costs like education or payday debt driving Americans further into poverty). But a $30 payment for a book is well within reach for the vast majority of Americans. The bigger barrier is less the cost, and more the time one has to sink into it, and competing for other hobbies like sports (playing or watching), TV, and other forms of socializing.
Aanddd, we are back to this, Zaardnar is form NZ, not America, and this tangent is mostly populated by people who are outside America, worrying about the cost of the books outside America and the distribution issues caused by this problem that affects most players outside America.
 

Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Tangent to a tangent: the book Banker to the Poor (the author earned a Nobel Prize in economics for his work; the book describes what he did and why he did it) shows that among the poorest of the poor, a loan shark can entrap a person in debt slavery using a $5 debt.
"It's only $30 !" doesn't carry much weight if the local currency is worth 2¢ each.

One more layer of tangent:
And if the would-be player is barely literate/fluent in English / French / Spanish / other Western language ...
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Aanddd, we are back to this, Zaardnar is form NZ, not America, and this tangent is mostly populated by people who are outside America, worrying about the cost of the books outside America and the distribution issues caused by this problem that affects most players outside America.

Pretty much. Still can't get Tasha's and it's $50.

The whole country has gone nuts with property so it's kinda like Seattle nationwide.

I bought dinner for one of my players last week. $15, book is $70. Student.

One unforeseen bill or payment screw up and yeah.
 

TheSword

Legend
If you truly can’t afford it, don’t buy the book. Doesn’t stop people playing the game.

WOC isn’t a charity. Up to the minute rules aren’t a god given right. WOC doesn’t owe anyone spit.
 

Ace

Adventurer
Pretty much. Still can't get Tasha's and it's $50.

The whole country has gone nuts with property so it's kinda like Seattle nationwide.

I bought dinner for one of my players last week. $15, book is $70. Student.

One unforeseen bill or payment screw up and yeah.
Its like that in the US too with all manner of other complication that dry up the amount of available cash for Americans to use for discretionary
expenditures.

This has to be hurting Hasbro as much is not more than the entertainment companies which if what I hear is to be believed even companies as large as Disney are imploding and looking at going from companies that routinely make billion dollar movies to NetFlix 2 with a better back catalog.

Until the global economy starts to grow wages faster than the cost of living if that is even possible I expect that a lot companies will be pinching every penny and this tends to lead to some very bad economic decisions and very possibly lawsuits.

Its also going to dent our hobby a bit though not that much, the SRD , pencil, paper and some borrowed books and extra dice are enough to start and play for a long time.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
If you truly can’t afford it, don’t buy the book. Doesn’t stop people playing the game.

WOC isn’t a charity. Up to the minute rules aren’t a god given right. WOC doesn’t owe anyone spit.

Yeah that's fine but ENworld I think skews a bit older and a bit more middle class professionals.

Insisting it's cheap when it's not that cheap and competes with opportunity cost is the main point.

There's cheaper hobbies that are easier to do.
 

MGibster

Legend
Yeah that's fine but ENworld I think skews a bit older and a bit more middle class professionals.
En World skews younger not older. The bulk of users here are in their 20s and 30s I think with us older folks for are 40+ in the minority. I would suspect that RPGs as a hobby skew towards the middle class though.

Insisting it's cheap when it's not that cheap and competes with opportunity cost is the main point.

It's all relative I suppose. I'm one of those old 40+ people for whom the price of books is negligible. It isn't money that keeps me from buying an RPG it's the thought of having a book I don't use cluttering my house that does the trick. But I could afford to buy RPG books even when I was younger and had to specifically budget for them. Role playing games are are a relatively inexpensive hobby.


There's cheaper hobbies that are easier to do.

I suppose that's true but I suspect RPGs are my least expensive hobby. I also like to hike, fish, and camp which aren't expensive activities in and off themselves but here in the US you need a vehicle, special clothing, footwear, and equipment, and you have to have the time to do it.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
En World skews younger not older. The bulk of users here are in their 20s and 30s I think with us older folks for are 40+ in the minority. I would suspect that RPGs as a hobby skew towards the middle class though.



It's all relative I suppose. I'm one of those old 40+ people for whom the price of books is negligible. It isn't money that keeps me from buying an RPG it's the thought of having a book I don't use cluttering my house that does the trick. But I could afford to buy RPG books even when I was younger and had to specifically budget for them. Role playing games are are a relatively inexpensive hobby.




I suppose that's true but I suspect RPGs are my least expensive hobby. I also like to hike, fish, and camp which aren't expensive activities in and off themselves but here in the US you need a vehicle, special clothing, footwear, and equipment, and you have to have the time to do it.
Same here but a lot of the tracks could be done on city clothing or gumboots.

Depends how long you want to go for.

Camp in camping ground or near convenient town.

Camp near convenient lake or river. May or may not have facilities.

Camp out in the mountains for a week may or may not have a hut.

Campings still mostly a middle class thing although you'll get the opportunity at school afaik.

Kinda depends on where you live as well ymmv.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
FYI: When it comes to camping in the United States if you're not on a campground there's a good chance you're homeless.

Here there's free campsites along the highway, paid ones with cabins, facilities vetc then out in the wop wops with hiking tracksvand huts.
 



Luminous

Legend
As much as I like 5e and many of the products WotC puts out for it, I'm starting to wonder if WotC might be becoming a toxic company to do business with (or at least, more toxic than usual).
That's why I hope the new owner of D&D (or WOTC) is different than Hasbro.
 


TheSword

Legend
Here there's free campsites along the highway, paid ones with cabins, facilities vetc then out in the wop wops with hiking tracksvand huts.
As someone who camps and hikes a fair bit... camping requires a tent, a method of heating food and liquid, usually gas stove, pots & pans, usually of the type you don’t use on a cooker at home, a gas/solar/batter light, some form of solar or battery charger for your phone/gps, it needs walking maps usually, walking boots, waterproof gear, rucksack, thick woolen socks, sleeping bag, bedroll.

In the UK that lot would set you back £150 - £1500 depending on how good quality stuff you want to get. That’s before you even get to the fact that there are fees for campsites, items like calor gas are consumable and the items about will wear out over time if used regularly.

Maybe this stuff is rock bottom prices in NZ. But I doubt it. Camping and is the last thing I would have picked as a cheap hobby.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
As someone who camps and hikes a fair bit... camping requires a tent, a method of heating food and liquid, usually gas stove, pots & pans, usually of the type you don’t use on a cooker at home, a gas/solar/batter light, some form of solar or battery charger for your phone/gps, it needs walking maps usually, walking boots, waterproof gear, rucksack, thick woolen socks, sleeping bag, bedroll.

In the UK that lot would set you back £150 - £1500 depending on how good quality stuff you want to get. That’s before you even get to the fact that there are fees for campsites, items like calor gas are consumable and the items about will wear out over time if used regularly.

Maybe this stuff is rock bottom prices in NZ. But I doubt it. Camping and is the last thing I would have picked as a cheap hobby.

Depends what you mean by camping.

DoC here builds huts you can sleep in. Or you borrow a tent and go camp beside river in normal clothes.

Lots of freedom camping sites as well. Freedom means free usually full of German tourists. Few 10-30 minutes drive. Campsites start from $3.50 if they're not free.

But yeah if you're going hiking into mountains for a week you probably want the nice stuff tents optional depending on where you go.

It's actually legal for me to go to the CBD, pitch a tent and camp for 24 hours. We also slept on a bench one night for free (legally).

Freedom camping

 
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