WotC Gale Force 9 Sues WotC [Updated]

In the second lawsuit against WotC in recent weeks (Dragonlance authors Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman sued the company for breach of contract and other things about a month ago), Gale Force 9 is suing the company for breach of contract and implied duty of good faith.

Gale Force 9 produces miniatures, cards, DM screens, and other D&D accessories. They’re asking for damages of nearly a million dollars, as well as an injunction to prevent WotC from terminating the licensing contract.

From the suit, it looks like WotC wanted to end a licensing agreement a year early. When GF9 didn't agree to that, WotC indicated that they would refuse to approve any new licensed products from GF9. It looks like the same sort of approach they took with Weis and Hickman, which also resulted in a lawsuit. The dispute appears to relate to some product translations in non-US markets. More information as I hear it!

UPDATE. GF9's CEO, Jean-Paul Brisigotti, spoke to ICv2 and said: "After twelve years of working with Wizards, we find ourselves in a difficult place having to utilize the legal system to try and resolve an issue we have spent the last six months trying to amicably handle between us without any success. We still hope this can be settled between us but the timeline for a legal resolution has meant we have been forced to go down this path at this time."

 

[MoonSong]

But in comparison to virtually any hobby out there, it's extremely difficult to find a cheaper /hour hobby. No, your computer game doesn't count, since you forgot to factor in the thousand (ish) dollars you paid for your computer.

Good grief, a D&D book is about the price of a decent meal at a sit down restaurant.

I've paid meals for five people in a nice place -kind of the nicest you can go without it being a dressup place- that are cheaper than what I paid for Tasha's. I've spent less on baking ingredients this year than I paid for Tasha's. (And I've been baking a lot this year).

In fact, baking is kind of a cheap hobby in comparison.

Also re: soccer. It is extremely cheap, all you need is a ball and a pair of sneakers per person that most people already own. Many kids could take it even cheaper by using a bag filled with trash. Boys in elementary school would inflate an empty juice box and use it as an improvised ball. You can't go cheaper than that.

 

[MoonSong]

I cannot speak to every country, but I have travelled a great deal (pre-covid). Most countries have access to the internet, either through computer or ubiquitous and inexpensive phone service.

There are numerous ways to get access to D&D rules now, whether for free (SRD, basic rules), or through country-adjusted cost. In addition, it is far easier today to get access than it has ever been in the past. I grew up overseas in a time when they only way to get access to the rules was to load up on books (which were MUCH more expensive back then, when you account for inflation) when I was in America.

But to answer your question- we were addressing cost, and how that is used as a pretext for theft. There are many things that cost money but are discretionary. Whether you choose to steal them or not to enhance your own leisure time is really a moral question that is up to you, but given that D&D is not a necessity to life, I do not find the moral argument to steal it persuasive.

I think the crux of the problem is we are having two different conversations at the same time. (I think only @Olrox17 and @Eltab have brought up piracy. The rest of us aren't defending it, but are rather more concerned on the demographics of this game, accessibility to it and the need for translations and official distribution outside America, we are a bunch of people outside America comparing experiences about the accessibility to the game outside America. Meanwhile you are trying to discuss about piracy while concerned almost exclusively about America)

Now, as far as being able to play D&D for nothing or next to nothing. Yes it is possible, yes it is doable, but you can't do it if you don't even know it is a thing to begin with. Which is a thing for the vast majority of the world population.

 

[Olrox17]

I think the crux of the problem is we are having two different conversations at the same time. (I think only @Olrox17 and @Eltab have brought up piracy. The rest of us aren't defending it, but are rather more concerned on the demographics of this game, accessibility to it and the need for translations and official distribution outside America, we are a bunch of people outside America comparing experiences about the accessibility to the game outside America. Meanwhile you are trying to discuss about piracy while concerned almost exclusively about America)

Now, as far as being able to play D&D for nothing or next to nothing. Yes it is possible, yes it is doable, but you can't do it if you don't even know it is a thing to begin with. Which is a thing for the vast majority of the world population.

To be clear, I'm not defending piracy. I'm just saying that people are much more likely to engage in it if WotC does not provide legit translations. Fan translations, after all, are technically piracy.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Now, as far as being able to play D&D for nothing or next to nothing. Yes it is possible, yes it is doable, but you can't do it if you don't even know it is a thing to begin with. Which is a thing for the vast majority of the world population.

But that gets to other, interesting, but complicated issues.

Even with the recent explosion in popularity, D&D (as a hobby that people play, as opposed to watch) is still niche. It's still niche in the United States. Because, as I have repeatedly stated, the main barriers to entry for playing D&D are not the cost of the products.

It is hardly surprising that as you move away from the country of origin, and away from anglophone countries, it gets more and more niche.

Put another way (and to paraphrase Mad Men), the problem with Jai Alai isn't marketing or people not knowing what it was. Maybe people are just terrified of ... catching balls in their face.

 

[Eltab]

I think the crux of the problem is we are having two different conversations at the same time. (I think only @Olrox17 and @Eltab have brought up piracy. The rest of us aren't defending it, but are rather more concerned on the demographics of this game, accessibility to it and the need for translations and official distribution outside America, we are a bunch of people outside America comparing experiences about the accessibility to the game outside America. Meanwhile you are trying to discuss about piracy while concerned almost exclusively about America)

Now, as far as being able to play D&D for nothing or next to nothing. Yes it is possible, yes it is doable, but you can't do it if you don't even know it is a thing to begin with. Which is a thing for the vast majority of the world population.

Olrox said it well.

A company can create circumstances where piracy is easy, or circumstances where piracy is hard - or even unnecessary.
Right now WotC is working on the former.

 

[LordEntrails]

the need for translations and official distribution outside America, we are a bunch of people outside America comparing experiences about the accessibility to the game outside America.

Emphasis mine. D&D is a leisure product, there is no need for it anywhere. Their is value (for WotC as a product, for gamers as a game, for people as a social tool, etc) for it though.

Now, as far as being able to play D&D for nothing or next to nothing. Yes it is possible, yes it is doable, but you can't do it if you don't even know it is a thing to begin with. Which is a thing for the vast majority of the world population.

This makes the assumption that if something is of value (like D&D) then every person in the world should know about it and have access to it. That's just not realistic, if not simply impossible.

As for translation part of this discussion, and trying to get back to the topic , translating a product is a business decision. One that WotC decided to invest in. There were (not surprisingly) issues. It doesn't mean they won't do translations in the future. It does mean that their are business issues to address. It does mean that consumers lose out while things go unresolved. And it also means that WotC loses out to.

Its not that WotC is some big bad evil megacorp, or Hasbro. It means it's a company dealing with complex relationships and issue. Ones that often get screwed up. Mostly because humans are involved and humans make mistakes, misunderstand each other, have different ideas and goals, etc.

IMO it will probably take them a year or two before they can start translations again. That sucks for everyone effected, but it's a leisure item and their are already more D&D content available for current gamers than you could ever play. Plus, at its core, D&D is a game where those at the table can make up whatever rules they want, for free. It's a game of make believe, go believe what you want to make the game happen!

 

[Zardnaar]

Ok, I've seen you say this repeatedly.

How low is your rent? A week's rent, even when I lived in Canada and was splitting rent on a student apartment was 300 (ish) a month. That was sigh twenty plus years ago. Note, that was just my half of the rent, which was actually 600 CAD. And that was a very cheap place in London, Ontario.

Look, if you're living below poverty line, sure, any hobby is expensive. But, that's an obtuse argument. EVERYTHING is expensive if you are living below poverty line. Been there, done that. I remember the days where I had to make the decision to eat or pay a bill. Sure, I get that.

But in comparison to virtually any hobby out there, it's extremely difficult to find a cheaper /hour hobby. No, your computer game doesn't count, since you forgot to factor in the thousand (ish) dollars you paid for your computer.

Good grief, a D&D book is about the price of a decent meal at a sit down restaurant.

At the time rent was $40 a week for my friend and the PHB was $45. That was 1996.

If you were willing to live in a dump last time I saw rent that low was 2002.

Rents gone crazy now idk what it is as I haven't paid any since 2009 so the books are cheaper relative to rent but it's around $150 USD for the fire books.

Two year subscription to Xbox game pass or over a year for Netflix/Amazon prime. Almost a whole weeks student allowance (I live in a student city).

Most university students middle class or better, and yeah it's very heavily white may as well be 100%. That's from 30 odd players in the gamestore and photos on facebook group with 1000 members.

Less diverse than the general population anyway.

 

[crazy_cat]

I've paid meals for five people in a nice place -kind of the nicest you can go without it being a dressup place- that are cheaper than what I paid for Tasha's.

Really!!!???
Where do you live, and what did you pay? Genuinely interested, and frankly amazed!
I'm in the UK - and I will (when I get round to it) pay £30'ish for Tashas (with a loyalty card discount) at a local store, could pay less/at worst same at Amazon as an alternative.
For context, here (Cambridge, UK) £30 - a round of drinks for 4-5 people, or a meal for one (maybe stretching to a starter and main) with an alchoholic drink at a reasonable restaurant.
Edit: For additional context - a one bedroom flat to rent in Cambridge - at least £1,100 per month plus bills/utilities.

 

[Zardnaar]

As for those suggesting play online during lockdown it turned out that a few kids didn't have internet connections or PCs at home for remote learning.

So yeah can't even download the free rules. It's funny that a few people here claiming it's so cheap aren't actually aware of what it's like being poor or how much you can pay outside the US.

It's cheap if you're middle class. Right now in USA there's something like 20-30 million struggling to eat.

Nice dinner for two at a decent restaurant is cheaper than PHB.

 

[crazy_cat]

It's cheap if you're middle class. Right now in USA there's something like 20-30 million struggling to eat.

Nice dinner for two at a decent restaurant is cheaper than PHB.

Isn't that just economics though?
Gaming is a luxury/non essesntial item - so the people selling it (WOTC and stores) price it as they see appropriate to maximise their revenue based on margin and volume, maximise return on investmnet, and achieve desired market coverage/penetration.
D&D is a luxury - nobody has a right to be able to simply expect to be able afford it.
Luxuries cost money, coming from discretionary spend from the money you have left over after essesntials are covered.
If buying D&D means not paying the rent or skipping food for a day/days/weeks then you really can't afford it.
That is sad, but it is also reality.
It also doesn't make pirating copies acceptable.
I can't afford a yacht - this doesn't mean it's OK for me to just put on an eyepatch, get a parrot, and then go and steal a nice shiny boat from the nearest marina