Game Day mini = Spined Devil

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Disappointed to see "Spot" listed.

I was really hoping Spot and Listen would have been folded into a generic "Notice" skill.

Same here. Listen is a pretty lame-o skill in and of itself. You're generally going to take both listen and spot anyways (like hide and move silently). I'd assume that they would be folded... arent they the same in Star Wars as well?

Perhaps "Perception +5" grants you a bonus to spot? So while his notice of +5, his spot would be +10? He sees better than he hears or something?

I'm really skeptical of these skill changes if everyone gets level/2 as a bonus to all skills... it makes everyone feel the same.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Or, each skillgroup (Perception being one of them) has subskills (Spot, Search, Listen, Sense Motive). You choose your Skill Focus in one of the subskills, granting a +5 bonus.

-TRRW

This is actually how I do my current 3rd edition game. You have notice, which covers search, listen, and spot. You can still have a different listen total from your notice, due to racial abilities, spells, magic items, etc. Same with athletics (climb, swim, jump).

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Well heres my guess at everything

the range and melee attack bonus is a +9, but the Strength and Dex modifiers are 7 and 5. This is likely due to the creature *dual wielding* with two claw attacks, providing a -2 to both. This means the creature has a +4 base attack, which would make sense for a 3e monster of the same level (6).

Mind you, I would imagine the base attack progression has changed as well so there may be more in play there.

Its a 6th level skirmisher. He probably uses the rogue BAB chart, which would put it at +4 BAB.

Which is good news... You'll no longer have to give undead, aberrations etc a billion HD to get a decent attack bonus. Coupling attack/defense etc with the monster's role makes more sense than by type.

 

[DandD]

It doesn't make sense that they would take the level into consideration TWICE for to hit. (BAB and 1/2 to attribute)

Let's explore the other attribute option (1/3 rounded up):

Stats:
1, 2, 3 = +1
4, 5, 6 = +2
7, 8, 9 = +3
10, 11, 12 = +4
13, 14, 15 = +5
16, 17, 18 = +6
19, 20, 21 = +7

(I personally find this much more streamlined.)

Melee to hit is +7 for strength and +4 for 6th level skirmisher and -2 for two claws. Ranged is +5 and +4 for 6th level skirmisher.

There could be another formula for determining skills, with this creature getting a +10 to his spot in addition to that formula.

Doesn't explain the damages though, and personally I think it's probably the same formula as 3.5 plus 1/2 level. However, I still don't see why they would take the level into consideration twice.

I hope and prefered if it were so too. Stat penalties only go to a maximum of -5, but stat bonus is theoretically unlimited.
Better to make it only a positive modifier all the way.

 

[Wormwood]

This is actually how I do my current 3rd edition game. You have notice, which covers search, listen, and spot. You can still have a different listen total from your notice, due to racial abilities, spells, magic items, etc. Same with athletics (climb, swim, jump).

That's my *exactly* house rule as well---down to the names used.

 

[takasi]

Yeah, comparing them side by side it really does make more sense the other way IMO.

Rip your soul out for a sec, forget all the nostalgia and look at the game from a newcomer's perspective. (Like THACO vs to hit.) Which system seems more convoluted to you?

1, 2, 3 = +1
4, 5, 6 = +2
7, 8, 9 = +3
10, 11, 12 = +4
13, 14, 15 = +5
16, 17, 18 = +6
19, 20, 21 = +7

Or...

1 = -5
2, 3 = -4
4, 5 = -3
6, 7 = -2
8, 9 = -1
10, 11 = 0
12, 13 = 1
14, 15 = 2
16, 17 = 3
18, 19 = 4
20, 21 = 5

The 1/2 level plus the base attack just doesn't sit right with me, but it does seem to explain the damage and skills a little more.

 

[takasi]

If it really is 1/2 level plus base attack, then consider a 20th level fighter (instead of skirmisher) with 24 strength:

+7 from attribute formula (score-10/2)
+10 level
+20 bab?

+37 to hit? That's the baseline?

At 10th it's +22 and at 30th it's +52. It just seems like the disparity between levels would be too high. And at high levels the roll would only be there for fumbles and crits, unless the AC is going to scale appropriately.

Or look at a typical 6th level fighter...

+4 from attribute formula
+3 from level
+6 from base attack

That's +13 without taking any other modifiers into account like feats, powers, items or buffs from other party members. That's supposed to be balanced against this creature with it's 20 AC and no DR?

(Of course, the same would be said of the other chart, at 6th level at least. +6 for an 18 strength, +6 for bab for a total of +12 before buffs. At higher levels though that 1/2 level plus bab would get out of hand, at least that's my initial thought.)

 

[Tazawa]

If it really is 1/2 level plus base attack, then consider a 20th level fighter (instead of skirmisher) with 24 strength:

+7 from attribute formula (score-10/2)
+10 level
+20 bab?

+37 to hit? That's the baseline?

I don't think so. I think PCs will follow different rules than monsters. The game needs to leave some room for magic items (magic swords, ability boosts, etc.). By giving opponents a flat level-based bonus, you don't need to equip them with their own magic items to make them competitive with the PCs. And the PCs don't collect endless +1 weapons from fallen minions at higher levels.

A side effect of this approach is that it may be fairly simple to run a low/no magic item campaign. You just substitute in the level-based bonuses for PCs instead of magic items and the monsters are still balanced against the PCs.

 

[frankthedm]

There's also no save DC listed for the poison, just the number 5. Looks like if you get tagged by the Spine Attack, you automatically take 5/damage per round are slowed until cured. Nasty effect.

Thats how I'd read that, matches up pretty will with how DDM runs poison too.

What if the attack roll is compared against Fortitude to determine if the person is poisoned (one roll to rule them all)? Saga applies poison damage to hitpoints, so I agree with you on that interpretation. In Saga, the poison continues with a check each round, until you defend against the poison attack. It'll be interesting to see how this is handled once we get the rules.

Simpest way would be to roll your Con as an attack against the poisoner's Fort, each time you activate.

 

[Tazawa]

One other cool thing I noticed. There's no flight manoeuvrability category listed for its fly speed. Yay!

One of the biggest pains in the ass as a DM is having to deal with 5 different, non-intuitive, confusing different ways of flying.

Good riddance to Perfect, Good, Average, Poor, and Clumsy - I never understood ya!