Game Day mini = Spined Devil

[mhensley]

In this example:
Level+Str-1=+9 melee
Level+Dex+1=+9 ranged

How do you figure? His Str is listed as +7 and his Dex is +5.

 

[jodyjohnson]

The listings for the Stats are his skill modifiers.

As seen in the damage bonuses the base modifiers seems to be the same as 3.x

 

[Someone]

My guess is that 4e's monsers' "base attack bonus", HPs and such will only be (or is only) based loosely on level and won't follow any hard mathematical formula, but that there'll be advice and charts about their recommended value per level (which ncidentally wil alow some interesting combinations, like brutes with many hit points and relatively slow and easy to dodge attacks but that deal a lot of damage). My understanding is that level is closer to CR than to hit die - notice they (hit dice) aren't anwhere on the card.

 

[frankthedm]

Note that speed is now listed only in squares. Also according to the DDM side of the card, the poison's effect is only to slow the target- no damage.

The DDM card is for the 3e version. Also DDM takes major liberties with special abilities. The 4e version of the poison, “Poisoned 5, Slowed while Poisoned” does kind of sound how DDM would word a poison that did 5 damage AND slowed the victim.

And hows about some folks weigh in on Nethersight? Sounds like those from the beyond get something better than plain ole darkvision this time. It might just be the new term for ‘see in darkness’, though they might even get to see your soul as a default, rendering most illusions moot.

 

[Tazawa]

I think the there's another bonus involved based on role.

Skirmishers are -1 melee, +1 ranged

Brutes may be +1 melee, -1 ranged

I think you may be right! Makes a little more sense than the flat 1 1/2 level attack bonus I proposed.

 

[Mad Mac]

The listings for the Stats are his skill modifiers.

This is possibly the best explanation. The damage bonuses work out this way. Although that means the math on his attack bonuses only works if he's taking a -2 penalty on melee attacks. Which isn't unreasonable for 2 claw attacks.

It also doesn't explain how the attack bonuses are figured to start with. People were assuming +4 BaB and +5 Dex to get +9. I haven't seen any formulas that work with +4 St or +2 Dex.

 

[frankthedm]

My understanding is that level is closer to CR than to hit die - notice they (hit dice) aren't anwhere on the card.

Levels are HD this time around IIRC. He is a 6th level skirmisher. That means a party of five PCs of 6th level would find a flock of five of these skirmishers a 'typical challenge'. Though I'd hazard a guess a flock of flying skirmishers that can slow the PCs will be more aggravating that most other 6th level encounters.

 

[Tazawa]

My guess is that 4e's monsers' "base attack bonus", HPs and such will only be (or is only) based loosely on level and won't follow any hard mathematical formula, but that there'll be advice and charts about their recommended value per level (which ncidentally wil alow some interesting combinations, like brutes with many hit points and relatively slow and easy to dodge attacks but that deal a lot of damage). My understanding is that level is closer to CR than to hit die - notice they (hit dice) aren't anwhere on the card.

Actually it looks like base attack bonus and hit dice are based off level. It also looks like immortals have the same basic attributes as 3.5 outsiders (good BAB, all good saves, d8 hit points).

Attack = Level + Ability Modifier + Role Modifiers (-1 melee/+1 ranged for skirmishers)

Saves = 10 + Level + Ability Modifier

hp = level x d8 + level x (Con modifier + 1/2 level). For the devil the result is:

6d8 (27) + 6 x (Con (2) + 1/2 level (3)) = 27 + (6 x 5) = 47

Note that adding the level bonus to the Con modifier essentially gives bonus hitpoints based on level, allowing higher level opponents to have very high hp totals without having extremely high Con scores.

 

[Someone]

Levels are HD this time around IIRC. He is a 6th level skirmisher. That means a party of five PCs of 6th level would find a flock of five of these skirmishers a 'typical challenge'. Though I'd hazard a guess a flock of flying skirmishers that can slow the PCs will be more aggravating that most other 6th level encounters.

Well, yes, undoubtedly Level will have much to do with numbers and must have some of the HD roles. Only that I won't be surprised if there are not hard formulas (like "base attack bonus is Level * X") and instead is something more open (like "level 6 skirmishers should have a 'BAB' between X and Y)

Any luck relating level with HP? The creature has 47 HP and +5 Con bonus. Working 3.X like, 30 of those HP should come from Con, leaving 17 for 'hit dice', which sounds a bit low.

 

[Tazawa]

Any luck relating level with HP? The creature has 47 HP and +5 Con bonus. Working 3.X like, 30 of those HP should come from Con, leaving 17 for 'hit dice', which sounds a bit low.

I thought I had (see earlier post), but apparently I suck at math. My formula resulted in 57 hp, not 47.