D&D 5E Game design allow sub optimal class build. Confirmed by M Mearls

[Sacrosanct]

For a while I've wanted to build a blue dragonborn tempest cleric. It's thematic and the lightning breath weapon gives a semi-reliable way to use the push on lightning damage feature. It's good to know that such a character won't fall too behind by not getting a wisdom increase at first level. In fact, I could focus using melee weapons for damage and use spell lots on buffs and healing. And spirit guardians, because that spell is just too cool.

My highest level PC in 5e (who I just retired) is a 15th level blue dragonborn tempest cleric. I'm not an optimizer, and chose to play that character for reasons you gave. The theme sounded awesome. At level 15, my wisdom is 18 (one ASI was spent and that was it).

Not only did I not fall behind, the optimizer of our group said he was jealous lol. And that was from level 1 all the way up to level 15. I was probably one of the most combat effective classes in our group (outside of the warlock/fighter with Hazeron), even if you take away player skill and tactics. Destructive wrath is the bomb, literally.

 

[MrHotter]

I don't want my players to pick the 'correct' race to go with their class. At character creation I let my players move one stat point from a racial bonus to another stat (that does not already have a racial bonus). I figure that any character that becomes a class that is not 'optimal' for their race is already not your average representative for that race.

Having +1 to a primary class ability score is enough to start with +3 modifier with the point buy and standard array.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah i was just a tongue-in-cheek note

Also to tell you frankly +2 damage difference is also not that big of a difference if you ask me, not something that would make me unhappy and not have fun at least.

It really depends what you want. Usually its the lower end that may be frustrating. But no its no deal breaker for me.

 

[Plaguescarred]

It really depends what you want. Usually its the lower end that may be frustrating. But no its no deal breaker for me.

Yeah some poeple put more importance on numbers and pluses affecting their own enjoyment of the game. To me the game is so much more than that.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah some poeple put more importance on numbers and pluses affecting their own enjoyment of the game. To me the game is so much more than that.

Of course it is more. But on the other hand, dealing damage is fun. And if that is what your character wants to be good at, you need some higher numbers.
My player's frustration came from a misjudgement of his chanel divinity. He had exterme high charisma and thought it added to hit and damage. And he misjudged the opportunity cost to activate his ability and he lost it several times by going down.

 

[Zardnaar]

For a while I've wanted to build a blue dragonborn tempest cleric. It's thematic and the lightning breath weapon gives a semi-reliable way to use the push on lightning damage feature. It's good to know that such a character won't fall too behind by not getting a wisdom increase at first level. In fact, I could focus using melee weapons for damage and use spell lots on buffs and healing. And spirit guardians, because that spell is just too cool.

Thats not really a weak build though if you built it right. 16 strength, 14 wisdom war cleric and off you go. Some of the gish options work fine with a 12 in their primary start as you would be using spells like hex.

 

[Corwin]

Thats not really a weak build though if you built it right.

There are no "weak builds" in 5e.

16 strength, 14 wisdom war cleric and off you go.

Why are you asking him to change to war cleric? Clearly he wants to play a tempest cleric. Are you saying he shouldn't play a tempest cleric because it would be a "weak build"?

Some of the gish options work fine with a 12 in their primary start as you would be using spells like hex.

But clerics don't get hex.

 

[Zardnaar]

There are no "weak builds" in 5e.


Why are you asking him to change to war cleric? Clearly he wants to play a tempest cleric. Are you saying he shouldn't play a tempest cleric because it would be a "weak build"?


But clerics don't get hex.

Clerics can get hex via feat or MC.

And yes there are weak builds in 5E. You can take the wrong feats, some classes are better than others or you can play a fighter with 12 strength using a greatsword.

Temepst cleric is more or less a war cleric with better blasting magic anyway. you are just trading in your smite thing for maximised thunder and lightning damage.

That is an example of a spell caster build not requiring a maximum spellcaster stat. If you played a single class bladelock you could probably make it work with 10 or 12 charisma and taking spells like hex and armour of agathys or with a Mountain Dwarf. Might not be ideal but you won't suck.

There are a few off the wall builds in 5E that are fun to play with. For example a nature cleric using shillagh, polearm master and a staff is not a bad combatant. Some spell casting builds can get away with low stats due to spell selection or being a gish. Thats not making a bad PC but you do need a plan and a decent knowledge of the game rules.

How about a brutal rogue then? That is a strength based Rogue. Start as a high strength fighter for 1 level MC into Rogue use a shield and a rapier, wear heavy armor and take the shield master feat and expertise in athletics.

Take a wild sorcerer with charisma 8 take spells like shield and mage armor, stick mage armor on the monk/Rogue and use spells like haste.

Any gish build have a decent strength or dexterity and a spellcasting stat anywhere between 8 and 16.

 

[tuxgeo]

< snip > . . .
What can go wrong is if there is a mismatch of priorities at the table. One player believes it should be all about winning at combat, and optimizes for that, while others at the table don't agree. Or, conversely, one player wants to play Gandhi, the Pacifist Barbarian, at a table where everyone else religiously reads optimization guides and looks forward to setpiece combat.

Long story short- there is no problem that cannot be solved with communication. Well, communication and pizza. Okay, communication, pizza, and beer.

Bolding added.

Wouldn't Mohandas K. Ghandi be more of a Pacifist Cleric instead of Barbarian? He was trained in Law at the Inner Temple, London; and he exercised humility in spreading the word to the populace.

Also, if he was prone to Raging, that wasn't a well-known part of his character.

 

[Corwin]

Clerics can get hex via feat or MC.

But if you take a feat to get hex, you can't take GWM or SS! And multiclassing to get it only delays your ability to take GWM or SS!