Game design that I'm surprised didn't make it into more books

[Frostmarrow]

The question I’m asking is: Given that we’ve seen how some d20 games have included a system to speed up the crunch prep of an adventure, why haven’t more publishers done this?

I think pre-prepped stuff becomes confining quickly. I see what you mean; in Spycraft there are rules for bad guys and their organizations; but if you use these in every game it might become a tad formulaic. D&D on the other hand is pre-prepped in the way that you know what it's going to be about. It's about four adventurers entering dungeons to kill monsters and take their stuff. In Spycraft you really don't know what the game really is about. Is it about capturing the lost briefcase or is it about revealing a criminal conspiracy or is it about tricking foreign intelligence?

In my group we seldom use the standard story for D&D but it is clearly stated that the game is about the standard story - by Wizards. Maybe you should think about what kind of standard story you are going to run and stick with it. My standard story is as follows:

1. The adventurers are ambushed by bad guys.

2. The adventurers try to, and do, find out who the bad guys are and what they plan next.

3. The adventurers go stop the bad guys.

 

[Gundark]

When they do something like that (i.e.: classed NPC's in MMIV) there is often a huge outcry of those WITH time who say that this is a waste of space because they could have come up with it themselves in 20 minutes (or whatever).

And since they have the time and inclination to complain, WotC hears them.

What they don't hear much of are those busy DMs who use their stuff but can't spare a few minutes to say "Hey, this rocks, I use it all the time and need more things like it!"

Squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all.

Well yes squeaky wheels get the grease that's true. I interpreted the compliants of the MM IV to not be "what a 3rd level gnoll ranger? I could do that in 20 minutes!!! what a waste of space!!", but to be more about "what? gnolls? I wanted a brand new monster!!!"

Personally I liked the idea behind the MM IV. The problem however with the MM IV becomes "well the 3rd level Gnoll Ranger is nice...but I need a 15th level one for my campaign". The same goes for when WotC provides sample characters in the Prestige class section (say in complete warrior), some are useful, some aren't. The gesture is appreciated definetly, however it's not the fix needed.

 

[SavageRobby]

Because it requires extra work on their part and many players may not appreciate the compromises required.

I would put forward Savage Worlds as almost the quintessential fast-prep game. I have a hard time getting many players interested in it because they feel it lacks the depth of options available in other systems.

Well yes Savage worlds is definetly fast. I had a hard time selling it to my group for the same reasons you mentioned. I hate to sound like a broken record but Spycraft 2.0 is a game that gives players complexity and is very easy on the GM to run.

My players didn't want to play initially because of the same misconceptions. Now they don't want to play anything else. I would say that while Savage Worlds is rules-lite, its definitely not rules-missing.

SW is a great game for low prep. I spend a vast majority of time on plot and adventure and background, and maybe minutes of NPCs. Its great. Just as great, the game plays quickly as well, so each session covers much more than most other games (especially 3x).

 

[bento]

Personally I liked the idea behind the MM IV. The problem however with the MM IV becomes "well the 3rd level Gnoll Ranger is nice...but I need a 15th level one for my campaign".

That's where tools like Hero Forge come into play. It takes me about ten minutes to stat a 15th level monster.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

This is why I just use Star Wars SAGA for every genre now. I'll take 10 minutes to convert races and reflavor the classes, then we're good to go. As examples of converted SAGA games, I've run a historical fantasy game, a modern game, a Call of Cthluhu-ish game, and am currently working on a Harry Potter-ish game.

Converted Race: Elf
+2 Dex, -2 Con
Low Light Vision: Ignores concealment (but not total concealment) from darkness.
Elven Senses: Elves may reroll perception checks, but must accept the reroll even if it is worse.
Speed: Elven base speed is 6 squares.
Medium Size: Elves have no penalties or bonuses based on size.
Conditional Bonus Feat: Elves gain Weapon Proficiency (Advanced Melee Weapons) if they have Weapon Proficiency (Simple Weapons).

That took all of two minutes to work up from scratch.

As to why more game designers don't follow along with this ease of use ideology, it's not that they don't want it to be easy to use, they just only want it to be easy to use if you buy all their products.

-TRRW

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As to why more game designers don't follow along with this ease of use ideology, it's not that they don't want it to be easy to use, they just only want it to be easy to use if you buy all their products.

Or, alternately, different people enjoy different things. Some folks love HERO, with its extreme level of detail.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Well yes squeaky wheels get the grease that's true. I interpreted the compliants of the MM IV to not be "what a 3rd level gnoll ranger? I could do that in 20 minutes!!! what a waste of space!!", but to be more about "what? gnolls? I wanted a brand new monster!!!"

Personally I liked the idea behind the MM IV. The problem however with the MM IV becomes "well the 3rd level Gnoll Ranger is nice...but I need a 15th level one for my campaign". The same goes for when WotC provides sample characters in the Prestige class section (say in complete warrior), some are useful, some aren't. The gesture is appreciated definetly, however it's not the fix needed.

I'm with you there. I like not having to do statblocks. This issue was brought up in that MMV design article too. One of the problem with the pregen monsters in MMIV, according to the article, is that they were stuff like gnoll rangers. Vanilla with vanilla sauce. I get the feeling that the author is of the opinion that if you're going to stat up a critter with class levels, choose a combination of race and class that will make the DM want to arrange an encounter that includes it, because it's cool enough.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sometimes I just want a gnoll warband and don't want to have to spend an entire evening statting one up. Fortunately, there are lots of shortcuts for generating characters that exist for all of four combat rounds.

 

[Henry]

While not d20, the Savage Worlds game system was designed with minimal GM prep time as a goal. In fact, Shane Hensley said in a series of design articles that speed of prep and speed of play were something that he saw lacking in the field, which is why he created Savage Worlds. It's a pretty well supported system, too.

So there are other companies following this same line of thought, but several have left d20 to pursue it. True20 and Star Wars Saga Edition are the first ones I've seen that really address the problem within d20.

 

[scourger]

I love Savage Worlds for the reasons mentioned. It is about 90% less work than the way I used to prep and run d20. But, it's not D&D, which is the lowest common denominator for my game group. So, I just took many GMing lessons that I learned from SW and transferred them to DMing D&D. My DMing work is much easier now, but mostly because I make it easier: D&D minis help immensely. It is still a lot more work at the table, but it's the game we all want to play.

I don't know why more game designers don't take ease of GMing into account. Probably because fine granularity in the rules appeals to all of us who play, whereas coarse granularity only appeals to those of us who GM.

For another great example of fine d20 game design that is easy on a DM, pick up Omega World. Of course, without boat loads of spells and magic items, the game is much easier to run. Mutations and technology give the same effects, but the game rules mechanics are so much easier. These factors may also explain why Spycraft and Star Wars Saga are easier on a DM.

 

[Yair]

I'm interested in you listing "Iron Heroes" as a low-prep game, as the main reason I never got that interested in it was that it seemed really more complicated than I wanted for what it does. (IMHO: IH is as complicated as it is largely because it is balanced against normal d20. That's fine, and I can see the reasoning behind that design choice, but it's not something I need / want.)

I'm not sure if IH is a low-prep game, but it is certainly a game where the designer took DM prep-time and running-effort into account. It is designed to let the PCs play with intricately complex characters while allowing the DM to use pre-statted monsters, quickly-statted Villain Classes, or imported monsters/NPCs from D&D - all requiring far less effort to build and far less effort to run.

How does True20 take prep-time into account? I've only skimmed it, but I don't see what makes the DM's job easier. Its mechanics (lack of hp, lack of AoO, only three classes) make running and making any character easier, which translates into an easier time for the DM too. But I don't see any special consideration being given to the DM's time and effort.

I'm not at all familiar with SW SAGA, but this was my impression of it as well. Only IH seems to pay special effort to ease the DM's job, the other games ease everyone's efforts and the DM's as a corrolary.