Game design that I'm surprised didn't make it into more books

[Delta]

My point is that I think it's a design flaw that you have to borrow NPCs from other sources (dungeon/dragon/fantastic locations). While there are shortcuts, d20 generally takes significant time to prep crunch wise.

I totally and completely agree with you. I think this is possibly the most important criticism of modern D&D.

 

[rgard]

Gundark-

The reason I think it is still an unfair question is because you are implicitly suggesting that the d20 complexity takes too long to stat NPCs-- I assume that, because writing a plot is not longer for D&D than any other rules system, it is the rules complexity that takes time. If that is correct, then there are lots of ways to cut that time: pick up Dungeon and use the NPCs without the adventure. Use the example NPCs inlcuded with every WOTC prestige class. Or just make NPCs using core books-- they will generally be effective enough that way. Just because the rules complexity to mix and match every class and feat *exists* does not mean you need to use them.

In addition to the above, I save a copy of just about every PC (at each level) who plays in my games. Need a 4th level fighter...no problem...pull out "Thundar's" sheet from when he was 4th level, change a couple of stats, skills or feats and you have your 4th level NPC fighter.

This way I save alot of time.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

I totally and completely agree with you. I think this is possibly the most important criticism of modern D&D.

I prefer the complexities of modern D&D to the simplicity of other systems and previous incarnations of D&D. There are alot of options for the PCs and therefore the NPCs. Sure, this will in effect generate greater prep time for the DM. For me it's not an issue, I take the short cuts mentioned above and play the game.

I don't fall in the criticism camp on this issue, it's what I like about the game.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

In addition to the above, I save a copy of just about every PC (at each level) who plays in my games. Need a 4th level fighter...no problem...pull out "Thundar's" sheet from when he was 4th level, change a couple of stats, skills or feats and you have your 4th level NPC fighter.

This way I save alot of time.

Thanks,
Rich

Don't forget The D20 NPC Wiki, which is a good source of quick, potentially disposable and recyclable characters. It's also a good place to post your old NPCs and PCs.

Give Thundar a new home: contribute to the D20 NPC Wiki

 

[rgard]

Don't forget The D20 NPC Wiki, which is a good source of quick, potentially disposable and recyclable characters. It's also a good place to post your old NPCs and PCs.

Give Thundar a new home: contribute to the D20 NPC Wiki

You are absolutely correct!!! Also, we have a forum here on Enworld too:

http://www.enworld.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Plots, Places & Rogues!

 

[mmadsen]

I think we need to accept that most games are not designed to be played so much as they're designed for a kind of meta-game comprising reading the book, thinking about how the rules might play out, designing new things using the rules, etc.

A streamlined system like Savage Worlds, designed to play well, might not read well or sell as many books.

 

[catsclaw227]

I have been using NPCDesigner for a while to quickly stat up NPCs. I can import them into DM Genie and it really helps to quickly stat up an adventure. Granted, it's not perfect, you get some odd skill/spell combinations, but that is understandable. It has some strong randomization/selection algorithms.

POST 1000!

 

[catsclaw227]

Don't forget The D20 NPC Wiki, which is a good source of quick, potentially disposable and recyclable characters. It's also a good place to post your old NPCs and PCs.

Give Thundar a new home: contribute to the D20 NPC Wiki

You are absolutely correct!!! Also, we have a forum here on Enworld too:

http://www.enworld.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Plots, Places & Rogues!

Excellent resources!

 

[Gundark]

I prefer the complexities of modern D&D to the simplicity of other systems and previous incarnations of D&D. There are alot of options for the PCs and therefore the NPCs. Sure, this will in effect generate greater prep time for the DM. For me it's not an issue, I take the short cuts mentioned above and play the game.

I don't fall in the criticism camp on this issue, it's what I like about the game.

Thanks,
Rich

I think people are assuming that my original shot was that d20 is bad or something because it's complex and complex games take forever to prep for. I highlighted Spycraft 2.0 as an example of what a good game design could look like for several reasons
1. it's a d20 game
2. it's a complex game with lots of options (feats, Prcs, gear, etc, etc) for players and DMs alike. Plus there are new books that have been released and that are going to be released that offer more options.
3. despite the complexity of Spycraft 2.0 it has a system built in that allows for very fast prep time. As mentioned above I can stat out NPCs, security systems, organizations, etc in about am hour's time regardless of of the level of the adventure. The NPC design system is so elegant that once I've stated out a NPC (say for a 4th level adventure) I don't have to do any more work on him if he returns later in the campaign (say at 8th level).

Conclusion: It's a myth that complex games take a long time to prep for. It's also a myth that you need to a rules lite games to have fast prep times. Spycraft 2.0 (and to a lesser extent Iron Heroes) has proved this fact.

So, since in this case you CAN have your cake and eat it too, why havn't more game designers taken this stance?

 

[rgard]

Excellent resources!

And congrats on 1000!!!