Game Elements from Other Systems

[Radiating Gnome]

I've always loved picking up other game systems and reading them over, even if I don't expect I'll ever get a chance to play them. Often, doing that, I'll find an element of one of those other games that I really like, and would love to add to my D&D game, but it's almost always a doom frankenstein experiment, since it's not an integral part of the D&D game mechanics.

And now, that's all on the table.

So, in this thread, what sort of game mechanics from other games -- any other game -- do you think would be an interesting element to consider for inclusion in 5e?

Here's one of mine: FATE-style aspects, as they appear in Dresden Files.

The Fate system is a lot more flexible and free-form than D&D, and the aspects take advantage of that sort of flexibility, so there are challenges trying to graft it into D&D, but they add concrete game impact to fluff in cool ways, and if they could be blended into the system from the start, that could be very cool.

What've you got on your non-D&D-mechanics wish list?

 

[Dice4Hire]

Well, I want to see high level abilities far more costly than low level abilities. For example Deadlands has a point buy system where one rank in an ability is trivial, and getting up to a 2 or 3 (normal levels) is not hard, but becoming super-human is very very point intensive. Even having a 6 or 7 is kinda amazing.

For example wizards and other full casters. I think they should have good broad access to low level spells (if they want) but realistically only be able to master 1-2 schools of magic and get the higher level spells.

Or specialize from day one and have more limited, but stronger power.


This is what I would like to see. Real tradeoffs in character building. In 3.5 Wizards (and of course clerics and druids) were so powerful at high levels because of their obscene spell choice. Cut that down and you limit them a lot.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Two big things jump to mind:

*Some form of action points that allow for narrative control; the Cortex version is nice but I'm sure there are others. A system that explicitly allows players to contribute to the plot.

*Drawbacks. Flaws. Complications. They've existed in D&D, but usually buried in some book of options. I want to see them strongly integrated into the core. It's been done well.

 

[Greg K]

1. True20 Conviction/M&M Hero Points
2. M&M Complications- award Hero Points when they come into play.
3. Savage Worlds Tricks and Tests of Will
4. Powers/Spells, at the basic level, handled similar to Savage Worlds, Hero, M&M, and Tri Stat. Too many D&D spells were worthless in my opinion. They are just variation of other spells (e.g, a slightly different bonus to hit and/or AC, the addition of those to the other or a spell with just a different appearance) or the fluff does not fit my campaigns. Lets just narrow down to basic generic effects and let the DM/players work it what it looks like.
I am not advocating throwing lots of power modifiers (i.e, advantages and limitations) in the basic game- save them for an appendix for the DM that want the details while keeping it simple for those that don't.

 

[Rechan]

Here's one of mine: FATE-style aspects, as they appear in Dresden Files.

The Fate system is a lot more flexible and free-form than D&D, and the aspects take advantage of that sort of flexibility, so there are challenges trying to graft it into D&D, but they add concrete game impact to fluff in cool ways, and if they could be blended into the system from the start, that could be very cool.

To explain to those who don't know what Aspects are, they are thematic concepts that, if something fits the Theme of your aspect, you can use it to get a significant mechanical boost. Everything - characters, encounters - have Aspects.

For characters, they are "Who that Character IS". They encompass advantages and disadvantages, and encourage players to RP appropriately.

To give an example, if a character has "Stubborn as a mule". Any situation where it's appropriate for the character to be stubborn, he gets a large bonus. However, any situation where him being stubborn is a disadvantage, the DM can say "You can act stubborn (complicating things) and get a reward, OR you can choose to not complicate things, and pay for it".

Fate is big on narrative control, and I think it would be awesome if D&D got some of that juice. However, I think it would be weird for most people.

 

[Saint&Sinner]

Fate is big on narrative control, and I think it would be awesome if D&D got some of that juice. However, I think it would be weird for most people.

That's why the whole modular design thing sound so cool. If they can give me a FATE style D&D I'd actually play it again.

 

[Rechan]

Most of the ideas I've seen in other systems are on the DM's side of things, in terms of how to handle skills and resolutions.

For instance, ChattyDM took elements from Apocalypse One, Mouseguard and Burning Wheel to change the Skill Challenge mechanic to what I think is pretty dang cool. Here's an example of it in action.

Burning Wheel has a concept of failed checks, called "Let it Ride", in that to do A task, you only get one try. So no "I failed my search check, I search again". A failure stands. This would move away from continually making a check - screeching the play to a halt - when PCs need to succeed at a skill for things to move forward.

Which goes nicely with Mouseguard's idea of failure - when you fail at something, you succeed at what you're trying to do. But a new complication is added. For instance, failing to jump over a river doesn't mean you fall in the river - it does mean you drop your pack with the McGuffin in the river, and have to chase it down stream.

The only mechanic I can think of for players right now is The Dresden Files' take on Social skills. There, when you are trying to convince/intimidate/etc someone, uses the same framework as combat: skill vs. skill rolls and the target is "worn down", taking social damage.

 

[Wightbred]

Yeah, definitely some social skill mechanics from Mouse Guard etc.

Let it ride also means your successes stand, and you only roll once to sneak into the castle.

Apocalypse World also has brilliant advice for GMing like "be a fan of the characters".

An alternative option where I don't need to use HP like True20 would be welcome.

 

[Rechan]

I posted this in a thread about Talent Trees, but it easily goes here too:

I generally don't like ability y having a lot of per-requesits to get (aside from level). Just like those feat-trees from 3e, talent trees also often mean getting things you Don't want to get something you Do.

However, if you like Talent Trees, take a look at Exalted and its skill/charm system.

In Exalted, you have various character abilities (equivalent of skills): Archery, Medicine, Martial Arts, Dodge, Occult, Athletics, Thrown, Craft, Melee (weapons), Presence, Performance, Larceny, Investigations, Survival, Bureaucracy, Socialize, Sail, Stealth, Resistance, Ride, Lore, Linguistics, Brawl (1st ed only), Endurance (1E only), Integrity (2e only; resisting social attacks/body transmutation attacks), and War (2nd only; commanding large scale battle).

Each skill has several trees of Charms (4e equivalent of powers) associated with it. For instance, Melee has a tree for multi-attacks, doing more damage with single attacks, and parry-related powers.

Taking a page from Exalted, it would be interesting if they tied Talent Trees to skills. It's unlikely to work for some things in D&D - combat related abilities aren't skills. But things like stealth/search/etc are, and feats/whatever that affect those could be tucked under a tree.

I didn't know that Exalted also had a social combat mechanic (I only played 1e). But some social combat mechanic would be nice.

 

[Nagol]

If I were a designer, I'd want to be careful with these.

As a gamer, if I want narrative-control elements, I play a game with those elements front and centre. If I don't then I pick a system without them. I don't want to fight the game system to play to way I want to.

The first thing the designers have to build is a vision of exactly what form a game D&D is. Steal all the mechanics that best represent that vision and no others.

Pick a flavour. Build the best version of that flavour. Don't build something where all the flavours run together and create a mix that satisfies no one.

I really don't envy them the vision building though. D&D's differentiating's original vision was the whole concept of fantasy RPG. That market has matured and become saturated with sub-categories reflecting genres, power levels, mechanics, and game styles.

D&D needs to stake out a new vision that somehow unites rather than alienates gamers operating with over 35 years of different experiences, table styles, and the design assumptions of a dozen or more design crews.