Game Mechanics of a creature surrendering

[Purna]

INTRO I'm creating a character for our new quest, since my current one is going to find a new comforting home and thus will not be travelling with the party anymore (for now). I wanted to play a pacifistic healer so i've build a Human Cleric with all the healing stuff and the forsaken feat "pacifist healer" as one of it's primairy features. Now i've been seaching for ways to avoid having to deal damage while still being effective in combat. So I've invested massively in Intimidate to cower enemies into all sorts of actions. One of it's effects as listed in the skill is 'You force a bloodied target to surrender'.

ACTUAL QUESTION What does surrender mean (Game Mechanicly seen, I know what the english word means..)?

MY GUESS I would imagine the monster to be helpless for the rest of the encounter, not being able to take actions. Yet i have not found any real rules about the subject. And if they are not written, I would like to read your opinions on what the ruling should be...

 

[Nullzone]

Theoretically it's a helpless target that can still be attacked, but I generally remove it from play so the players don't feel paranoid about it suddenly turning on them or something.

 

[twilsemail]

Quick Answer: It's not defined so you'd have to ask your DM what it means to him.

Mostly Useless Answer to You: My players find enemies that surrender leave the initiative tracker and cease to take actions in the combat, with the possible exception of backing away. The enemies are certainly not Helpless in a mechanical sense. Surrendered enemies will not flank with their allies. They do still occupy a square.

Formatting: Caps Lock is not your friend. Try bolding, italicizing or underlining the important text in your post. Caps Lock will make many otherwise amiable posters walk away and not answer.

Aside from that, welcome to the boards. I hope you can make good use of the wealth of gaming knowledge that hangs out here.

 

[Purna]

Thanks for the imput twilsemail and Nullzone

Both of your reactions include 'remove from initiative order'. I find that odd since in my opinion they may still play a crucial role in the encounter. I imagine the creature to stumble backwards with a broken will, ready to obey easy orders like the cleric saying 'Sit! Don't dare to move'.

[MENTION=79628]twilsemail[/MENTION]: I did not mean to do it in a yelling fashion, but as heading. I'll take your advice and use bold in future posts.

 

[twilsemail]

I've always seen it as them putting their hands up, probably dropping a weapon if they have it.

It's certainly not them falling unconscious, which is what helpless leans towards. I take them off the tracker, but not off the board because they're still an element of the combat.

The intimidator basically says, "See how awesome we are. Knock it off or we'll kill you." When the PCs start making it obvious they're going to kill the guy anyway, the enemy is probably going to rejoin the fray.

I think WotC left this bit vague on purpose. It should be up to the DM how different monsters react to the check. Wolves might run away while gnomes might hit the dirt. No one's reaction to being intimidated should be laying their head on a chopping block.

 

[Balesir]

Yep, it has been left (possibly intentionally) vague. I interpret it that they try to disengage and flee, but if that fails (for instance if they try to shift away but take damage doing so) they cease taking actions and count as dazed; they will allow a character with a rope (or similar) to restrain them. If ordered to do something they might count as Dominated, but they will not attack any creature, for example, simply not acting instead. If left unattended they will most likely (try to) flee. If it becomes obvious that the party intend to kill them anyway they will fight to flee.

But the bottom line is "it's up to your group to decide what it means".

 

[OnlineDM]

I agree with "it's up to the DM". I'd also say that this is generally expected to happen with the last enemy in a fight rather than the PCs methodically saying, "Okay, I've bloodied that guy. I'll use my next standard action to get him to surrender and then have him sit in the corner while we finish beating on his friends."

By rules as written (RAW), you CAN do this, but it's rather weird. How do the other monsters react when one surrenders? Do they follow suit, especially if this was their leader? Do they turn on the coward and attack it?

I do get where you're coming from as a Pacifist Cleric, but I think that as a DM I'd get tired of keeping track of a bunch of surrendered monsters each combat.

 

[Purna]

Thanks you all, for giving your thoughts on the subject.

@OnlineDM That would seem weird to me too, but i can imagine the cleric 'capturing' a foe that's suffered wounds. Cowering it into submission with the first standard action, using the second a round later tieing him to a pole. When his ally's are still alive and kicking in the third round I think it could be logical for him to restore his will, showering the cleric with insults while trying to get loose. I think it might be good to determine the effect with respect to the situation (are his fellows still alive, is it a cowardly kobold or a fierce dragon).

 

[Ryujin]

Helpless? no.

Flee if possible? Sure.

Drop their weapons and say, "I give up"? Sure, if they can't get away.

How is it handled in the rules? Not really much, at all. It becomes more of a role play issue, than a mechanical one.

 

[OnlineDM]

Thanks you all, for giving your thoughts on the subject.

@OnlineDM That would seem weird to me too, but i can imagine the cleric 'capturing' a foe that's suffered wounds. Cowering it into submission with the first standard action, using the second a round later tieing him to a pole. When his ally's are still alive and kicking in the third round I think it could be logical for him to restore his will, showering the cleric with insults while trying to get loose. I think it might be good to determine the effect with respect to the situation (are his fellows still alive, is it a cowardly kobold or a fierce dragon).

Fair enough, but what are the other bad guys doing to the cleric while he spends two rounds yelling at and tying up their ally? I would say that if you're spending your round tying up an enemy, you are definitely granting combat advantage. Maybe the cleric doesn't care, but it's something to think about.