Gamer's Limited Knowledge?

[Turjan]

I see people complaining that X is not out and what they mean is that the X (sometimes multiple versions) that is out, is not the X they are looking for, and at the same time, too unsure of themselves to make X on their own.

Right, they want a spoon-fed, custom-made version of X. That's how life is . It's the same as with campaign settings discussion that we recently had. I still hope someone will accidentally publish my homebrew .

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm not trying to be rude or challenging - I'm just trying to understand.

It's not a problem.

Like I've mentioned, I've read a lot of books. Heck, I've read about three to four times as many books as I have reviews here.

Do I expect everyone to do that? Nope.

Do I expect people to put some effort into tracking down information before coming in with FACTS about how the system cannot do X, Y, and Z? Yes. Should I be happy that these same posters get people pointing out that there are options and then those people who feel that the system doesn't handle it ignore all the options that other posters point out? I don't think so.

Perhaps it's just too much holiday whining but how many times have we seen that D&D can't do low magic? That it can't handle grim and gritty? How about that the d20 magic system itself is broken? How about d20 can't handle a point buy system for abilities? How about people complaining that the paladin isn't a prestige class despite official and unofficial versions of said thing being available in many places?

These things annoy me because the people have no idea what they're talking about and refuse to do anything about it. It's one thing to say, "Man, I wish there was a supplement for D&D that covered merchants", as I always do, and another to go, "Man, I can't believe that there are no options for using Action Points with D&D..." or something along those lines.

Does that help to clarify? Like I said, partly just a holiday "bah" on my part but it's like someone asking me what 2+2 is and me telilng them 4 and then claiming that since they didn't get that answer, it must not be 4 and that they will strive onwards.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Why does it bother you that some gamers (including me) aren't 100% satisfied with the material available, may not be conversant in every supplement and accessory on the market, and/or lack the confidence to tackle making up rules on their own? Again, I'm not trying to be rude or challenging - I'm just trying to understand.

Maybe because so many of those poor, frazzled, overworked souls somehow find the time and energy to complain incessantly here on the net? Not a dig at you, but a frank answer to your question. As has been said, time after time we see such posters spend an inordinate amount of time complaining, but at the same time ignoring a lot of good advice. I think a lot of people wonder why those who can't scrape up the pennies to buy more stuff (yet seemingly have the shekels to be on the internet quite a bit), or who don't have the time to look at other sources (yet have time to post on the internet quite a bit), don't seem to want advice on what to look at. Many posters here assume that others come to this site for advice, not just to use it as a confessional or wailing wall.

 

[velm]

It's not just them. Having spent a bit of time over the years on WotC's forums, I notice more than a few posters who refuse to accept any alternate rules mechanic unless it came from a WotC source; even if the originator was a former popular WotC designer, the fact that they no longer work at WotC makes their work somehow "suspect." There is a perception among a percentage of gamers that WotC's playtesting and quality assurance is superior to all others.

To be fair, it's a common human nature sort of thing. It happens with appliance manufacturers, with brand name groceries, etc. My mother and father worshipped the ground that Sears & Roebuck was founded on for support of appliances.

I have to agree. I have spent some time passing through there and the result is the same. If it is not WOTC, it does not exist and it is wrong to think it COULD exist. I had a chuckle seeing people talking about sorcerors and how it is heresy to think that it COULD be based on constitution instead of charisma. Umm, Monte Cook's Sorceror has some stuff based on CON, I believe. Wait, that is NOT WOTC, what was I thinking?
Another thing I noticed was that another impression that I got was that it seemed like there were more than a few people who were more interested in 'roll playing' than 'role playing'. Some of those threads were just on how 'X' is better than "Y", and it just made me shake my head. The one post that made me laugh the most was when a person showed how his 20th lvl fighter defeated a dragon. That was funny. He then posted, round by round how he did it. That nearly had me on the floor laughing at horrible the dragon was played.

 

[Acid_crash]

I wish I could game with 80 people who felt the same way I do about gaming, but I am unfortunately not able to find many who feel this way.

I have been gaming for only five years, the only game I have played is D&D. Not just D&D, but 'core D&D'. This means, "Wizards of the Coast D&D."

I have been in five games, ran one myself. The one I ran was when D&D3e first came out, and it was 'core' because I was learning the system, and I think that when learning the system it should be core so as to not burden yourself too much.

However, in the other four games, each DM, who has been playing for many years longer than me, was only for 'core' D&D. Why? Because he didn't want to look through any other books, because he didn't want to take the time to see what else was there. Okay, his decision, I accept it. What I do not accept about one of these DMs, though, was his constant side-bickering that the sorcerer wasn't as good as it could have been, and the paladin should be a PrC.

Bringing to him a weblink and printout of two PrC variant Paladins and one alt.sorcerer from the web did nothing for him. He looked at them, then trashed them, and said that if it wasn't WotC doing it, he wouldn't bite. Half hour later he was still complaining.

Earlier this year I tried, once again, to run a D&D game, but this time with the ruling that I will be using a variant class of each core class except the Fighter because all the variants I had found, and printed off, I felt were better done and had more options to them. At the table of six, one player stood up and flat out said that if it wasn't 'core' he wouldn't play, and walked off. His best friend followed because he was a follower. A third said that the variants looked too complicated and he wanted it 'an easy game' so left.

After three of six leaving, I said to them to just forget it, grabbed my stuff, and walked out, and I told those three that walked away that if they can't think outside the 'WotC box' that WotC has firmly created, and they can't use their imagination for more than what they apparently want... well, what I said wasn't too pleasant and I can't say it on here... needless to say, I was pissed because I did spent a lot of time working on the game and stuff, and they crapped it aside without blinking because my classes Weren't Official from WotC.

That is my reason why I do not like D&D as a game that much because of this box so many people seem to have. I like the game, but I don't like it for the attitude some have. I don't know if that makes sense.

 

[IronWolf]

I am one of those that tends to only play from the WotC books. For the most part it is a matter of time and money. With family, kids, etc. I only have so much time to dedicate to this hobby. When I was younger and had a bit more time I would certainly love to browse through all of the seemingly great d20 material out there. For now though, I am sort of pigeon-holed in the WotC land.

As for funds, I play in the Forgotten Realms so I try to keep up with those source books in most cases and keep up with the core WotC books that interest me. I am open to buying other companies d20 modules and continue to do that.

With all of that being said, I really do not complain about the WotC rules. They meet my needs and I do very little tweaking or house ruling (again, mainly due time factors). If I had complaints I would certainly turn to other d20 sources for ways to fix things I thought were broken or could be done better.

So in the end, I am happy with WotC items for the most part. Sure I want more fluff, but I tend to play in the Forgotten Realms, so my fluff tends to come from them or places like Candlekeep.

In my time here at EnWorld I have certainly enjoyed having my eyes opened to all of the other sources of material. It just all goes back to time and funds as why I don't actually read more of it.

 

[Voadam]

eh, I see people asking all the time about specific rule variants and others experiences with them. More frequently in the OGL and house rules forum but here as well. I've gotten good feedback on various systems of armor as DR, enough for me to decide I want to stick with the less realistic core armor as AC system. Before teh discussions though I wasn't aware of the armor to subdual variants such as in Grim Tales I believe.

Others are complaining about or critiquing the core system as it stands, which I think is valid. "Why I don't like alignment" is a valid discussion here just as good as "what have you done instead of the core alignment system".

 

[barsoomcore]

I have to admit, I find it perplexing that somebody could have enough online skills to find ENWorld and post here, but can't spend five seconds to go to Google and type "D&D hit points variants" and click on the first link they get.

Buddy of mine started up a campaign set in Napoleonic Europe. In coming up with a character, I naturally did a bit of research (or at least, it seemed natural to me). When I presented my character background, he kind of freaked out and wanted to know where I'd gotten such incredibly detailed information. When I said, "Google" he really didn't get it. And this guy is a computer professional. And a DM, running a historical campaign.

It's weird how many people don't Google. I could not do my job from one day to the next without Google. Google is my friend. Google loves me.

 

[CarlZog]

Perhaps it's just too much holiday whining but how many times have we seen that D&D can't do low magic? That it can't handle grim and gritty? How about that the d20 magic system itself is broken? How about d20 can't handle a point buy system for abilities? How about people complaining that the paladin isn't a prestige class despite official and unofficial versions of said thing being available in many places?

These things annoy me because the people have no idea what they're talking about and refuse to do anything about it. It's one thing to say, "Man, I wish there was a supplement for D&D that covered merchants", as I always do, and another to go, "Man, I can't believe that there are no options for using Action Points with D&D..." or something along those lines.

For many folks, a web forum like this isn't so much a chance to learn as it is a chance to complain. That the complaint is baseless doesn't matter; their satisfaction comes from eliciting at least one other voice that agrees with them. People like this don't want answers and won't look for them. That's not their goal. Don't let people like this get to you.

As for the rest of the people who DO want answers but complain because they don't know the answer is already available: Joe, we are the ones who rely on folks like you and your reviews to tell us what problems every newest book can solve. Like you said, you read a lot of books -- way more than I ever will. Personally, I find yours and Psion's reviews to be the basis of most of my purchasing decisions. And I haven't been disappointed. Likewise, there is a clear cadre of people on these forums that have the breadth of knowledge to help me solve most issues I may have with the game. That's why I read and post here.

However, I heartily agree with the poster that suggested the value of indexing the review archive by topical matter. Help me find reviews of the old releases that may solve my latest problem.

As for "official" and un-official sources: I've played off and on for more than 25 years. From the early days of A&E and the Judge's Guild to today's d20 publishers, whoever has the stuff I need and want gets my vote of support. I shudder to think about everything I would have missed out on over the years if I closed my eyes to all but those bearing the king's seal.

Carl

 

[Doug McCrae]

I have to admit I wouldn't know where to find rules for magic items that level. Unearthed Arcana? I'd just ask on ENWorld probably.