Gamers Opinion of PCGen (No Rants)

D'karr said:
And what success or failure is being described with random dice generation of Hit Points or for that matter Ability Scores?

Unfortunatly yes. I *believe* that they are in talks to see if simply adding a random dice roller would be allowable. Not specificlly tying it to anything, but simply a dice roller. Hope for the best. until then download a random dice roller, or (Heaven Forbid) actually roll the dice on your desk in front of your monitor :). Thats what I do (roll the dice).


Arnix (tm)
 

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D'karr said:
And what success or failure is being described with random dice generation of Hit Points or for that matter Ability Scores?
I think the logic in this piece is that higher is better than lower. Hence an 18 is a success when compared to a 3. But, as I said before, IANAL, nor am I an agent of WotC.
 

Pc Gen is my most used File on my Pc. I've been using it for a long time. Since about 2.2.

It is beggining to lack however. The No Dice Rolling really annoys me. And now the removal of all the other books also bothers me.

Otherwise it if my favorite program.
 

Since I don't have E-tools nor the Twin Rose campaign suit, PCGEN is the best character generator I have access to, but...
I don't use it (I play with it, watch for its progress however). It's simply faster and simpler to use pen&paper. Why ?


1)The program, despite some recent minor improvment, is simply too slow on most computer, especialy the P100 32 MB available in my club. At home, I have a k6 300 with 128 MB, and it takes five second to just add a new level to a character. So that's at least one minute to just "say" "this character is a level 12 cleric". And with the new castrated version, you must add the time required to specify how many hit point you gain at each level (unless you choose the allways max hit point, there isn't even an "average setting")!

I remember the first version of PCGEN (before the 2.0.0), it was so much faster. And simpler, see below


2)The program is still more complex than necessary. 15 tabs ! That's 5 too much I think. The summary,ability and race tab should be one and the same (just remove prereq and source column, and use the label instead, and you will have the place needed). And I can't see the point of having a description + a misc + a note tabs !

When you lauch PCGEN, the first thing you see is the Source Material tab. Remove it ! For the first use, load the PHB only. And add, in each character tab a "setting" icone wich you can click on to access wich source you use for this tab.
Example : race tab, By default, only the PHB race are available.If you want something more exotic, or if you want to forbid such or such race, click on the setting icone, then select the source material you want to use , then select wich races you want to be available with a check box before each race, click on the OK button, and choose the race of your character. And of course, the next time you start PCGEN, these races will be available in the race tab. You can add a "save config" option in the file menu, so you can have various configurations available (the equivalent of the customize option in the source material tab, but far more intuitive, I think)

The inventory and Equiping tab should be merged (There isn't a spell and a spellbook tab, isn't it ?). And an item should not be available under more than one category (magic.weapon. and weapon.magic.) : It's just confusing.

In the Skill tab, there is no need to have two column for the cost of a skill (in the right and the left part) and since there is a "total" column, there is no need for the "modifier" one.
In all tab, please allow the user to hide the column he doesn't use (by example the source column). The Cost column may be removed, if a color or font code was used.

Last but not least, since it still doesn't work perfectly, and since there is the possibility to print via PDF, why is there still a preview tab ? Remove it, I'm sure a single item in a menu, or a single icon in the toolbar (preview in browser) will be enough. If it can save some memory ressource and speed up the program, it will be better. I know you can hide the preview tab, but I still think it will be best to remove it. And the zip file will have some kb less too...


3)PCGEN still lack some important fonctions
It would be great, when you create a n level character to get the money for a character of n level (see the table in the DMG) : this would be a great option. And why, when you buy a familiar doesn't it appear in the ressource tab ?

There is an obvious lack of communication between the tabs : equiping and inventory, ressource and inventory, spells and inventory (when you have more spells in your spellbook than the standard alotment for your level, these extra spell should have been bought. And BTW a spellbook has 100 page, and you need 2 pages per level of spells : it's another thing PCGEN does not know).

And I don't understand why PCGEN allow you to create monster, while it is so hard to use for creating NPC > I don't need as much detail for an NPC than for a PC, and PCGEN really lack a instant NPC generation tool.

In the skill tab, it will be great if perform did function the same way than speak langage, adding a new art each time you gain a new rank. The possibility to create a new knowledge/profession/craft as you need it (like you create a new magic item by customizing it) would be appreciable.

In the class tab, I would like to see a table, indicating for each level what class you choose. I don't know how PCGEN work for things like max skill and multiclassed character, but I do know that the order you progress in your different classes does affect the skills and feat you may choose.

So, when PCGEN will be faster, more intuitive, when it will be able to generate ability and hit point, when it will use the FR stuff I use, I will use it. Until this time, I play with it, download each new version and wait.

And NO I can't use PCGEN as a replacement for a book I don't have. I recently tried for the psiHB I had forgotten, and it was nearly useless (One of my gamer was able to find what was the prerequisite feat for the metamind, however, so she could take the feat without waiting that I retrieve my book).

And there is the last problem of PCGEN : you can't erase and rewrite a printed character sheet, like you can with a pencil-filled one :D (Who print a new sheet each time he level up ?)
 

Personally, I have avoided trying PCGen. The main reason is that it is JAVA based. In my mind that tells me that it will be slow, and probably ugly. The second reason is that its home is on sourceforge. In my mind that tells me that it will probably have a clunky, by-the-programmer-for-the-programmer interface. It also tells me that I will have to search hard to find screenshots, if I can find them at all.

If anything I wrote is false, please let me know. Those are my own personal biases, and if they can be disproved, I will consider giving the product a look.
 

Maraxle said:
Personally, I have avoided trying PCGen. The main reason is that it is JAVA based. In my mind that tells me that it will be slow,

If you have a semi-decent (i.e. no more than a year or two old) computer, it shouldn't feel all that slow. Certainly not lightning fast, but that has more to do with the way we've chosen to implement a few things than anything inherent to java.

and probably ugly.

That *is* a common complaint. :) Again, nothing to do with java, but with the fact that, well, most of us developer-type persons just don't have much talent at graphical layout. :)

I will say that I have certainly seen uglier applications, and that if one chooses the Kunststoff 'look & feel' (pcgen is skinnable, see the docs I've linked to below) I think it looks rather nice. But then, I *am* one of the developers, and thus probably shouldn't be trusted to give opinions on this. (Of *course* my baby is the prettiest in the world. :-)

The second reason is that its home is on sourceforge. In my mind that tells me that it will probably have a clunky, by-the-programmer-for-the-programmer interface.

See above. :)

It also tells me that I will have to search hard to find screenshots, if I can find them at all.

Hmm. I must admit I have no idea how to find the screenshots, but as I do know one link to them, here it is:

http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/doc/screenshots/

Or, to see them in the context of the manual they are part of, follow this link and click on the 'walkthrough':

http://rpg.plambert.net/pcgen/doc/Index.htm

If anything I wrote is false, please let me know. Those are my own personal biases, and if they can be disproved, I will consider giving the product a look.

I don't know if I've disproved them, but I hope I've given you enough information to make up your mind.

/Jonas
 

I tried PCGen in one of it's earliest incarnations. It scared me away. I tried it again about a month ago, and it's great. I use it for all the PCs and NPCs in my game.

It doesn't make me not want to buy books, as I only use the books that I own. On the other hand it doesn't actually make want to race out and buy books that are in PCGen, either.
 

Aloïsius said:
[SNIP many good comments]
[/B]

I agree with quite a bit of what you say, do you mind if I quote this on our forum at yahoo?

There are a couple of people lobbying for a simpler/better gui, and I think they might be interested in reading what you say.

(As I said in an earlier post, I'm your basic stereotypical developer who started out on VT52's and thus keep talking about the Good Old Days of No Gui. Of course, I keep getting trumped by those who started out on lineprinters. Or those who started on punch cards. Etc. :)

/Jonas
 

jujutsunerd said:


I agree with quite a bit of what you say, do you mind if I quote this on our forum at yahoo?

There are a couple of people lobbying for a simpler/better gui, and I think they might be interested in reading what you say.
Quote me please ! My overinflated ego need it :D

Seriously, if there is any chance this help those couple of lobbying people, go for it.

(As I said in an earlier post, I'm your basic stereotypical developer who started out on VT52's and thus keep talking about the Good Old Days of No Gui. Of course, I keep getting trumped by those who started out on lineprinters. Or those who started on punch cards. Etc. :)

/Jonas

I'm not a programmer, but I remember the good old day, command line, autoexec.bat and config.sys, and the holy quest for the 640 k. Everything was simpler. (BTW, I have nothing against a ugly ANSI-text interface, as long as it works and is practical)
 
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Count me in as a happy 2.7.3 PCGen user. It allows me to do what I want - create PCs/NPCs using a variety of sources. When I game, I don't game with just the three core books (which makes both PCGen 3.0+ and ETools pretty useless to me).

In general, I use PCGen as a tool to create specific character types - so, I'm looking for implementation of material I have purchased elsewhere. I tend to get my inspiration from the stuff I've already purchased. I like to be able to read through the full descriptions of classes, or spells, or races, or whatever, before I decide to use it. Once I decide I want to use it, I'm happy if PCGen has it in there already. The sources in PCGen are too incomplete for me to use without having the full material from elsewhere. To be honest, PCGen has not affected my purchasing habits - I have neither sought out nor avoided material because it was in PCGen.
 

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