Gamers Opinion of PCGen (No Rants)

[Eosin the Red]

Maybe I'm just stupid, but I've never been able to get the thing to work.

Amen brother. I hope you ain't stoopid or there are two of us (well, more than that actually, only 1 of 5 in my group took the time to figure PCGen out). That boosts my self esteem some.

Always liked the concept, but the execution threw me. I now stick to xl spread sheets - much easier to make them do what I want.

Good luck with the new versions and the OGL stuff.

 

[Maggan]

My opinion on PCGen

Well, chalk up another negative. Sorry, it's not that I don't appreciate or recognize the time put into this, and the motivation and so on. But as a tool, I can't make PCGen work for me.

Basically I don't understand the interaction model. And I believe this has very little to do with the GUI. A broken interaction model can't be saved by a GUI. It can be helped, but not saved. So a lot of work has to go into rethining the interaction, not only the GUI.

So, you might for example implement wizards, that walk you through the creation of a pc. I also think you would do well to limit the number of options available at the fingertips of the user. Focus on presenting the most common things common gamers want to do, and put the rest of the stuff that the programmers want to use in an interaction layer below that.

For example, compare PCGen with Jamis Buck's NPC Generator. Not many options in NPC Generator, but it does its thing, and it does it well. And in an easy to understand kind of way.

Sure, it hasn't got all the options and customisation possibilities that PCGen has, but that doesn't really matter if I can use NPC Generator and not PCGen.

For a more coherent discussion about interaction and stuff that you all might find interesting, read "The inmates are running the asylum", by Alan Cooper (the guy who created VB). It's a good book, and I recommend it to anyone developing software. Actually, many rpg game designers should read it as well.

Anyhow, good luck with future versions.

Cheers

Maggan

(note to all: most electronic tools I have seen have similar broken interaction models. They are basically to darn difficult to use. PCGen is not the only tool with this problem, but since this thread concerns PCGen, i sorta tried to focus on that)

 

[Henry]

Let me do my part to offer a positive opinion as a "counterweight."

My experiences have been mostly positive. With the exception of custom LST files in the past having been invalidated by new tags and the like, I have had a marvelous time over the past 9 months using characters from any supplement allowed in our games, easily plotting my characters' growth in-game, and creating customized equipment and spell lists for situations in the game. I got all this functionality for free, and have been able to participate (minorly) in its development through bug reports and suggestions.

In answer to your question - almost unequivocally NO. PCGen does not allow you to make use of supplements you do not have. I say almost, because there still were a few cases of feats here and there where the game rules were still spelled out in the description by overzealous LST monkeys (Song and Silence coes to mind). By for the most part, a properly done LST file gave you the option to incorporate a prestige class, feat, or item on your character sheet without telling you what it did. Some people may have had a problem with a program telling you what prerequisites were needed for a Prestige class, but you still cannot utilize info from that class without knowing what those special abilities did. (I dare anyone to tell me what a monk's "diamond body" special ability does solely by looking in PCGen, or the specific mechanics of an acolyte of the skin's demonic skin properties.)

Now, I am in a quandry. I have seen no other Character generating programs that have been forced to remove random dice generation, and while I understand this is done for d20 compliance, it really puts a stumbling block in my enjoyment of the program. Sure, I can break out some random dice generator program, but it adds an extra level of complexity to what was a simple program. I'm still sucking it up, but if even more WotC-enforced strictures start piling up, I am going to lose enjoyment of this wonderful program quickly.

While I am at it, Knightcrawler do you know of any more dramatic losses of functionality that PCGen may have to incur to become d20 compliant?

 

[Breakdaddy]

PCGen ROCKS. Its free, its feature complete, and its well-supported. I cant tell you the amount of programs I've dropped 50+ dollars on that havent gotten half the support that PCGen gets! The interface didnt take long for me to get used to and now it is my character gen of choice, with or without the WOTC extras. E-Tools has cool "instant-generator" features, but nothing beats PCGen for its completeness and support. Thanks a lot PCGen team, and please keep up the great work!

 

[Knightcrawler]

I thank you all for your opinions both the good and the bad. Really all I can say for most of your issues is be patient and wait. Hopefully we'll get the OGL/D20 stamp of approval soon and then we can start getting those removed files back in the data files.

To our supporters I say, Thank You. To everyone else, wait for the dust to settle and then give PCGen another try before you totally write us off.

 

[EarthsShadow]

How about this...

I will download PCGen in its newest version 3.1.0 and see how it works. Then, I will post how I feel about it. I tried it once when it was like 2.4.?? and I was totally and way confused, but since then things have changed and hopefully the program has also. I'll post a reply soon and let you know.

 

[myrdden]

I have seen no other Character generating programs that have been forced to remove random dice generation, and while I understand this is done for d20 compliance...

I am curious. Why would the random dice generation affect d20 compliance?

Myrdden

 

[kingpaul]

I am curious. Why would the random dice generation affect d20 compliance?

I believe, and IANAL, that it comes under this clause in the d20 System Guide

"Interactive Game": means a piece of computer gaming software that is designed to accept inputs from human players or their agents, and use rules to resolve the success or failure of those inputs, and return some indication of the results of those inputs to the users.

 

[D'karr]

And what success or failure is being described with random dice generation of Hit Points or for that matter Ability Scores?

 

[Arnix]

I have to say that I like PCGen. Of all the competition that I have tried, it is the best of them. That said, it is also constantly changing. Some changes are improvements, some changes are annoying. Example: Change in gui is good, removal of lst files for books I own is bad, but request by WoTC.

More changes are coming.

Currently, lst files are tedious to create. Plans that I have heard/read are that PCGen is in the process of developing a xml version of the lst files. This means that creation will be a little easier and importing data from other applications will be simpler (E-Tools has an XML export/import as do one or two others).

There are also plans to create a lst file generator. You add the classes and feats and ... and the application will generate the lst file for you. No more having to open the lst file and type a bunch of extraneous and confusing tag info. You will have a gui interface that you can enter fielded data.

Currently PCGen is not without flaws (is any non-trivial software?), but it is getting better.


Hope this helps,
Arnix (tm)