GC 2006 - Ptolus Hardback $120!?!

[philreed]

I never said it was impossible, but do you see any WotC, Green Ronin, Necromancer, Mongoose, etc books priced this high?

Didn't Necromancer just release a big, expensive ($70?) boxed set? And hasn't Mongoose announced a $100 monster book?

 

[Vocenoctum]

If only 1/4 of Ptolus is useful for you, then you are not its target audience.

It's a bit of a circular arguement really. If you buy it, then it's meant for you. If you don't buy it, it's not meant for you. I didn't get that impression from what I've read of Monte Cook's on the subject. He's building a product he wants to build, the way he wants to do it. He's not marketing it as some great value, in fact I'd think the additions are something of an incentive because he was afraid of the $120 price tag he'd need to charge. Same with the payment plan.

That doesn't mean this book isn't leaving fans aside that have supported Malhavok for a long time. It doesn't mean that a Mid Range Ptolus couldn't make more money by selling more.

Frankly, Ptolus isn't the point for most of this, it's the value of a high end book, with Ptolus being the (as yet unpublished and unseen) example. The issue is the next book like this, or the one after, and so on, once the companies think this will sell. For those books that they're unsure of in the 40-60$ range, they can now pad it out, frill it up, and market it as a High End book. For those of us that may have bought the 40-60$ book, we're left out in the cold, because the "book isn't meant for us".

Monte Cook has made it clear why this book is what it is, it's for him. There will be disappointed fans though, that can't get it. If the book had been made to a Middle Standard, those fans could possibly have gotten it.

It's for the children!

 

[Turjan]

Oops, this is still going on? What's so difficult about it?

If you're fine with paying $120 for the book with extras, then buy it. If you think that's too much, then don't buy it *shrug*.

I don't understand the "just a city" comments, though. You can have a whole campaign for years in one city, if it's a good setting. I don't see a problem with that. You will probably tell me that the Star Wars setting gives you much more for your money, because you get so much more cubic miles with your puchase . In the end, it's all a matter of thought and detail that go into the setting .

 

[Crothian]

Didn't Necromancer just release a big, expensive ($70?) boxed set? And hasn't Mongoose announced a $100 monster book?

Winterlands I think is the box set and it was 60, mongoose does have a big monster book coming out I'm not sure the final price on it though but it might be 100

 

[Sunderstone]

Didn't Necromancer just release a big, expensive ($70?) boxed set? And hasn't Mongoose announced a $100 monster book?

Is that the Judge's Guild Wilderlands boxed set? Theres a Players Guide too, IIRC. Yes, I believe it was $70. Its also $50 less than Ptolus and has more than one city in it. I still may pick this one up btw.

Mongoose? I dont know as I currently dont own anything from Mongoose. Nothing yet jumps up and grabs me and Ive heard mixed reviews here as to some of their products.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Try to keep in mind that no one person/company gets that entire $120. Assuming a fairly standard 60% discount to the distribution chain the income drops to $48. You can then assume another $12-$15 for printing and shipping (a book of that size is going to be expensive to produce _and_ deliver) and then White Wolf needs to get a percentage for their part in the publication process.

Factor in art costs -- 100+ color images is going to be at least $10,000 for the quality I've seen (and I could easily believe an art budget of $20,000 once the cover, maps, and graphic costs are totaled) -- and in the end of this it's not as if Monte is going to be out and buying a gold-plated Rolls.

Book production is expensive. VERY expensive.

I think that a large number of gamers do not understand the effort and money that goes into a release. I've been in the meetings and seen the numbers -- games are expensive to create.

The production values of this book are more than others as part of the design, and I think that's also why there's such a pre-order. The more preorders, the better they can guage the market for it, but also the more of that cut they get. I assume some will be available to the mass market, but I don't know if they've limited the print run yet.

 

[WildWeasel]

I never said it was impossible...

...spoiled when it comes to things I want to buy so no problem with spending that kind of money on anything. I just wont spend that kind of money on one book.

Yes because $120 is too damn expensive for this kind of product.
I agree that companies are around to make money, but $120 is way over the top IMO.

Sounds like you're saying it's impossible for a book to be $120, irregardless of the amount or quality of the contents.

...but do you see any WotC, Green Ronin, Necromancer, Mongoose, etc books priced this high?

MC is experimenting with a new type of product. Just because only one or two other companies have tried it doesn't mean it is necessarily a flawed concept. If anything, those other companies seem to have done well enough by it so far.

But you noted that you'd spend $60 on Shackled City, but not Stormwrack. What is the difference there? And why can't that difference be something that could scale such that a $120 book is worth buying?

Its weird that the book isnt even in anyone's hands, yet people are defending it as they would a religious artifact. Im not doubting its a religious artifact, just the cost, atm.
How dare I insinuate that it possibly might not be worth the price tag?

But you haven't been. You've been saying that's its impossible for it, or ANY book, to be worth that price tag. I'm trying to figure out why that is.

 

[philreed]

Winterlands I think is the box set and it was 60, mongoose does have a big monster book coming out I'm not sure the final price on it though but it might be 100

Wilderlands -- $69.99 -- I can't find an exact page count anywhere.

http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=670


I couldn't find any information on the Mongoose book. I'm _almost_ certain I saw $100 as the price.

 

[WildWeasel]

I don't understand the "just a city" comments, though. You can have a whole campaign for years in one city, if it's a good setting. I don't see a problem with that. You will probably tell me that the Star Wars setting gives you much more for your money, because you get so much more cubic miles with your puchase . In the end, it's all a matter of thought and detail that go into the setting .

Exactly, the city IS the campaign setting. One and the same. It's supported MC's campaign(s?) in just the city for years. Ptolus, the city, was the testbed for 3rd ed. Not Ptolus, the world.

 

[Crothian]

Wilderlands -- $69.99 -- I can't find an exact page count anywhere.

http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=670


I couldn't find any information on the Mongoose book. I'm _almost_ certain I saw $100 as the price.

my bad on the Wilderlands, I thought I heard people saying it was 60 at Gen Con. THe Mongoose book has been talked about in the publisher forum, that's where I read on it.