General Discussion

[FrancisJohn]

How cheeseball/lame/borderline illegal/frowned upon/walking the line would it be to retire Francis John III, and make his halfling brother Francis John IV? He would either be a bard or a sorcerer. Different stats of course, but very similar personality (and picture).

 

[Scott DeWar]

Shouldn't be a problem. There are guidelines on the wiki - I would give you a link, but I am having trouble with getting on the wiki. The sight is too busy for it to load properly.

 

[KahlessNestor]

We diverge here. You don't get all the abilities in the animal stat block only the ones called out by the particular spell. If it is not on the list then you don't get it. It's not a full transformation; animal ability scores don't replace your own, for example.

Hmmm. I have never had a problem in PFS using anything in the stat block. Like earth glide when transforming into an earth elemental, elemental immunities, air superiority as an air elemental, etc.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

RE: Beast Shape - I agree with GlassEye on this one. Since the authors go to the trouble to specify that "If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent," my read would be that things they did not put on the list aren't granted.

RE: Francis John - every character is granted a "re-working." I can't find the section in the wiki right off hand, but the intent is for just this situation. "Oops, I'm not sure what I was thinking when I made that particular choice!" It seems like mechanics are fair game for a re-write, but background has to remain the same. Any other judges who can lay hands on the specific rules or process for this please feel free to chime in!

 

[KahlessNestor]

It seems you may be right as I look deeper into it.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kx9z?Beast-Shape-IIII

Never had it called out, even with a 5 star GM. But then my wild shaping has mostly been utility and not combat.

But I think this is a glaring omission then. By RAW, you will NEVER get sprint, because sprint is never listed on the granted abilities no matter how high level you are. That seems wrong. Animal forms aren't overly superpowered like other things one could do with polymorph and sprint especially isn't overpowered.

 

[FrancisJohn]

RE: Francis John - every character is granted a "re-working." I can't find the section in the wiki right off hand, but the intent is for just this situation. "Oops, I'm not sure what I was thinking when I made that particular choice!" It seems like mechanics are fair game for a re-write, but background has to remain the same. Any other judges who can lay hands on the specific rules or process for this please feel free to chime in!

The problem is I already used my character rewrite. That's why I wanted to use his brother. FWIW, it's already in FJIII's history that he has a twin brother FJIV. This was my first character in pathfinder, and I know what I wanted in his concept, but the plan for achieving that was seriously flawed for many reasons, of all my own fault. I didn't realize I could mechanically achieve what I wanted through a bard.

I wanted to know before I drew up the bard variant as his brother if it was a waste of time.

I found the polymorph info in the magic section of the PRD was really helpful, as all of you are, with the Beast Shape stuff.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

Ah! Well, in that case I would not be seriously opposed to you retiring FJIII and introducing FJIV. It's a little cheesy, but not against the rules as far as I can recall. And since the entire point of playing is to have fun, we'd like for you to actually be having fun. That's a whole lot easier if you're playing the character you want to play. You'll likely lose at least a little experience in the transaction, as new characters start at the bottom of the current character's retiring level. Call that your cheese tax .

 

[FrancisJohn]

I'm fine with a cheese tax. Vote Bernie!

 

[Scott DeWar]

And let us not forget this was already in his history/background already.

 

[Aura]

Mowgli is right, we want people to be playing the character they want. Just do your best to get there expediently, the rewrites create work for others.