General Discussion

elecgraystone

First Post
Ok, have a few more questions. First, I looked under horses and found that to make a horse heavy, you add the advanced template. That adds 4 to all stats. Do heavy horse really have a 6 int, making them the smartest animals around?

Second question, I was looking at the animal archive and I saw a bigger animal that I could afford without using the rich trait. The Bison only costs 75gp for combat trained, is large with a 27 str, 7' at the shoulders and 12' long. Would one of these be ok for use here?

Third question, are there any established merfolk gods? If not, could I worship a merfolk version of Callisto? And if Callisto is ok for her, does that god have a favorite weapon yet? I was hoping that it could be the trident (at least for the merfolk version).
 

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jackslate45

First Post
Ok, have a few more questions. First, I looked under horses and found that to make a horse heavy, you add the advanced template. That adds 4 to all stats. Do heavy horse really have a 6 int, making them the smartest animals around?

Nope. Check out the Heavy Horse entry, and you'll see the INT is still 2. Per the Animal Type, base animals can only have INT 1 or 2. The exception to this are animals trained by PC's. Shadow has INT 3 because he was trained and brought up away from his natural enivornment, and therefore can learn tricks and abilities other animals cannot.
 


Satin Knights

First Post
Pondering Mythic: SK casts Resist Energy five times in a row. "Ah! Somewhere to spend our DMCs!" and then ducks. :p

I have only skimmed Ultimate Campaign so far. There looks like quite a few bits that can be twisted and abused more than we would like. Drawbacks to get another trait. Story feats. So, that book is going to take a lot of inspection first.
 

elecgraystone

First Post
Nope. Check out the Heavy Horse entry, and you'll see the INT is still 2. Per the Animal Type, base animals can only have INT 1 or 2. The exception to this are animals trained by PC's. Shadow has INT 3 because he was trained and brought up away from his natural enivornment, and therefore can learn tricks and abilities other animals cannot.
Ok, the advanced template there had this extra added. " (except Int scores of 2 or less)" Was this errata'd/FAQ'd somewhere because it's missing in my book.

On Ultimate Combat, the traits looked ok IMO. As I remember drawbacks seemed worth 1/2 feat (or a trait) worth on pent. As cool as some on the story feats where, I'm say drop those. Those are really for a full campaign with one DM running you though the whole thing. Expecting every DM here to see the story element the same way is more trouble than it's worth IMO.

It might be easier to break the book down by sections and approve it that way. Start with traits and axe those you don't like. then debate story feat and drawbacks entry at all. Downtime stuff is cool, but I don't know if that's a can of worns you want to open.
 
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jkason

First Post
I haven't gone near Ultimate Campaign yet, myself. I wasn't sure it would apply since the marketing copy, at least, seemed to suggest most of it would be geared toward long range, specific campaigns, which doesn't work really well in LPF. Likewise I'd not been considering Mythic, since I thought that was for ridiculous-level play. Though as SK points out, the way some of the more active DMs can amass DMC... ;)
[MENTION=74232]elecgraystone[/MENTION], on the matter of Bison, I think d20pfsrd may be listing some third party or supplemental stats in that section. I can't seem to find any references to Bison as mounts outside the Beast Rider archetype in the PRD proper, and the only references for buying anything like it are for a Yak, which is explicitly a pack, not a riding, animal.

I'm not sure I'm especially inclined to purchase-able exotic mounts in general, though, without some pretty compelling story / background involved. I'd also expect more than a few DM's to stack the exotic race + exotic mount into a distinct disadvantage when you were trying to interact with people. You're likely to have a difficult time getting people to do more than stare or scurry away from the sight of such a pairing. And those who don't may be inclined to try to steal your mount when you inevitably have to leave it stabled to enter a building, since as noted, it's so exotic.

Since I think you mentioned in another thread that you wanted to get a better idea of LPF playstyle, it might be better to go with something simpler for your first character, then you can decide if a more exotic concept 'feels' right for a second character after you've had a bit of a run?
 

Satin Knights

First Post
Mythic isn't 20+ level play. It is a set of rules that can be used starting at first level. But, it is definitely supercharged. One mystic level is worth about two character levels is what they are designing. When I play-tested it, it felt like the first level of mystic would be worth about 3 character levels. You get special abilities that ignore the normal rules, but they can only be used a few times a day. You only get a few HPs, compared to a regular character progressing and the saving throws don't go up. That becomes the Achilles heel of the character. Since you are taking on tougher opponents, who may also have mythic abilities, the chances of going splat are just as easy as succeeding.

I would love to try it. But, it throws balance out the window AND over the cliff. I still want to do it anyways. So, it would mean organizing separate games for mythic characters vs. normal characters. A few characters, like Daylily for instance, could cross that line and still survive okay.

I mentioned DMCs earlier. Mythic is the "new toy". Everyone is going to want to rush to it. We are struggling to find enough GMs as it is. It is only fair that people take a turn in the GM chair before getting to play with the new toy.
 

Aura

Explorer
I'm not feeling much of a need for Mythic. Calling it a 'toy' might be the best description. The game seems to be getting to the point where new stuff just seems like clutter.

But then again, with games, it's publish or die.
 

elecgraystone

First Post
To jkason, if you look at animal archive, one of the approved books for living pathfinder, and go to page 14 and look under riding animals, you'll find bison as the second entry. I used the actual books to make up the character, not an internet site.

Exotic: I'd classify bison as unusual more than exotic. It's a fairly common pack animal so it shouldn't throw people off too much IMO. I'd think it'd much easier to handle that the vast majority of animal companions...

Stealing mounts: If my bison is in danger of being stolen, then every ranger, druid, cavaler and anyone with a mount should be a lot more worried than I. A wolf (100gp), bear( 740gp), riding dog(150gp), horse (75-200gp) are worth more than the bison. It seems that playing a 'normal' character should be scared to death over thier animals.

Simple characters: To be honest, the reason I came here was the ability to play characters I couldn't play elsewhere. I've been playing d&d for 20+ years so I've played plenty of base race + base class. I want to play something I haven't before. And to be honest, I'd be asking these same questions is this was my second or third character so why not ask them now? When an adventure involves travel, I'd like to know how my character can do it and if I have my own mount, it makes it much easier to head to the next town or travel to an out of the way ruin instead of the DM contriving somehow for me to get there while everyone else just jumps on horses.
 

jkason

First Post
To jkason, if you look at animal archive, one of the approved books for living pathfinder, and go to page 14 and look under riding animals, you'll find bison as the second entry. I used the actual books to make up the character, not an internet site.

Thank you. I couldn't find any reference to source on d20pfrsd, and I don't have the time these days to dig through all the books (thus my preference for internet sites), so that's what I needed.

Stealing mounts: If my bison is in danger of being stolen, then every ranger, druid, cavaler and anyone with a mount should be a lot more worried than I.

My general thinking on that subject (which was unmentioned though not unconsidered when I made the previous post) was: all of those classes have special bonds to their animals, since they're a class feature. Any animal companion or mount would attempt to return to its character at the first opportunity by virtue of that bond, and if he or she really was gone, the game has mechanics for restoring them. Heck, paladins can summon the bloody things to their side once a day no matter where they are.

Given the prevalance of those types of characters, my thinking was that most thieves already know what an extra hassle it is to try to take a companion. A regular critter, however, is an easier steal. And though a bison may be a pack animal, one that lets people ride it seems like not the kind of thing one sees every day. I figured the "Almighty, that there's a bison trained by a fish-man!" factor might draw more attention than just another heavy horse. Mileages vary, and that's perfectly fine. But since I thought about it, and you were asking, it seemed a reasonable point to raise.

It seems that playing a 'normal' character should be scared to death over thier animals.

For what it's worth, I'm always leery of stabling animals when I'm in a game, myself. While I don't recall it ever resulting in actual theft, it triggers my "don't split up the party" response a little. :)

And to be honest, I'd be asking these same questions is this was my second or third character so why not ask them now?

I found a lot of answers to my own rules questions just from playing in the games about here and seeing some mechanics, and the various GM styles, in play. My point on the effect of a more bestial mount, for example, came from some things SK has done, where people and animals reacted to 'monstrous' looking characters with suspicion because, well, they looked different.

When an adventure involves travel, I'd like to know how my character can do it and if I have my own mount, it makes it much easier to head to the next town or travel to an out of the way ruin instead of the DM contriving somehow for me to get there while everyone else just jumps on horses.

A responsible angle to consider. I tend not to worry about it, myself, at least insofar as transport to a locale goes. My general theory is that the GM has to get the party there by one means or another in order for the adventure to happen. Sometimes he'll make getting there part of the obstacles to overcome (SK, again, had a fun little side-dalliance involving getting horses), but there's only so much travel-blocking a GM's probably inclined to do, at least from my viewpoint, since it just stalls the adventure he or she took the effort to design.
 

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