General Monster Manual 3 Thread

[Aegeri]

I love it when I speculate on something and then a wizards designer just comes in and has my back.

Quick Moridin, let's pose as a team...

...cause just got real.

Incidentally that's something I really like as an attitude for design. I've never been that much of a fan of resistances and immunities. For example the new aboleths I made damage enemies when they are hit by an attack with the psychic keyword - as opposed to giving them psychic resistance of some kind.

Edit: If I have a complaint though, it really does feel to me we desperately need a DMG 3 or something where all the new creature design rules are put in one place. We've changed so much in MM3 from what I can see:

1) Maths of damage and accuracy has changed for most monsters

2) Power design has changed conceptually (controllers exerting control effects on a miss, soldiers marking or similar on a miss etc)

3) The previous changes to solos hit points and damage.

4) Minions gaining roles and how they are being used now.

5) The backing away form giving monsters blanket resistances and instead other more interesting mechanics (this is a really great idea - one I've wanted for a while).

Really we need all of this collated into one place as the original DMGs monster creation guidelines are way out of date now.

 

[fba827]

Actually, one of the things we tried to promote in this MM (at least in the case of the volcano dragon and other catastrophics) was that they have elemental deterrents instead of resistances. It's still a bad idea to hit the volcano dragon with fire, it's just not a "I wasted my time with that spell" bad idea, but instead, "Well, I hit him with fire, and so he did damage to everyone in the aura."

This helps not only eliminate the "wasted turn" feeling that resistances to cause, but also helps speed up combat; instead of reducing one target's hit points by less, both sides got their hp decreased.

nice! i (personally) prefer effects based on certain types as opposed to just a resistance (such as given in the above example).

For previous monsters, several of the monsters with resistance that i've used in my own games were houseruled to have side effects from that damage type rather than resistance itself.

so in this way, i like this change in focus for this book.

 

[fba827]

Edit: If I have a complaint though, it really does feel to me we desperately need a DMG 3 or something where all the new creature design rules are put in one place.
(snip)
Really we need all of this collated into one place as the original DMGs monster creation guidelines are way out of date now.

Yeah, I'd really like this too -- I do a lot of custom monster tinkering and "monster creation" section in the DMG is one of the most used sections for me, so having updated guidelines (for hp, damage, etc) is something i'd really like to see.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Actually, one of the things we tried to promote in this MM (at least in the case of the volcano dragon and other catastrophics) was that they have elemental deterrents instead of resistances. It's still a bad idea to hit the volcano dragon with fire, it's just not a "I wasted my time with that spell" bad idea, but instead, "Well, I hit him with fire, and so he did damage to everyone in the aura."

This helps not only eliminate the "wasted turn" feeling that resistances to cause, but also helps speed up combat; instead of reducing one target's hit points by less, both sides got their hp decreased.

Yep, I definitely prefer this approach, too. It just keeps things more interesting.

"Boyah! I crit with my Fireball on that monster". "Ah, okay, he takes 5 damage thanks to his resistances". " There goes my Daily!"

"Boyah, I crit with my Fireball on that monster." "Ah, okay. he takes 30 damage, and all people within 5 squares take 15 fire damage, 10 ongoing (save ends)." " There goes the Rogue. Oops."

Neither sounds good for the team, but I know which one sounds more fun.

 

[Gradine]

On the downside, the stock of any power, feat, item or class feature that centers around lowering enemy resistances will be taking a nosedive. I don't know what percentage of features that entails, but it's greater than zero.

Granted, it's definitely a design concept I can get behind, for the most part. There are a few exceptions I can think of, here or there. For instance, I buy the idea of fire powers hurting a volcano dragon (the difference between natural heat/lava and magical fire is significant and appreciable.) But if I'm slapping a Flaming Sphere down on top of a fire elemental, a being composed almost entirely out of the very stuff I'm slinging at it... I can't see that doing really any damage of any sort. And I'd expect to be punished for it.

It'd be nice, if "enemy resistances" were being phased out in favor of "this will work, but it is a very bad idea"-type effects, to see those "reduce enemy resistances" features retooled into "reduce enemy punishments". Or at least see the creation of such features in newer splatbooks.

 

[Drammattex]

As you made the Kraken and are here I feel the need to congratulate you on it. It's one of the most well made and interesting solos in 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons. Not to mention you accomplished this feat with a creature at high heroic/low paragon. That's great.

Thanks, man! In the campaign we were playing one of the PCs was a gypsy sea rat. I wasn't sure if we'd continue the campaign into the paragon tier, but thought that the kraken would make a great BBEG toward the conclusion of a heroic tier campaign.

Unrelated, I read the Verbeeg entry on the train to work today and loved it. Kudos to the designer--I'd love to know who did it. Took a close look at the picture--it's carrying a cask and mug, and it's wearing a freaking DISPLACER BEAST!!! I love the story of Jack Longears in the opening paragraph--perfect Grimm's Fairy Tales flavor for a fey giant.

Had never been interested in verbeeg before, so congratulations, whoever you are--I'm using them from now on. I'm sad they're evil... I kind of want to hang out with them.

 

[Squizzle]

But if I'm slapping a Flaming Sphere down on top of a fire elemental, a being composed almost entirely out of the very stuff I'm slinging at it... I can't see that doing really any damage of any sort. And I'd expect to be punished for it.

Being able to produce a Flaming Sphere, or a Fireball, or even a Scorching Burst implies enough control over flame to disrupt a being created of it.

Alternatively: I'm composed of living stuff, but being bitten or clawed by another living creature can screw me up pretty badly. For that matter, even simple pollen can make me fairly uncomfortable.

 

[fba827]

For that matter, even simple pollen can make me fairly uncomfortable.

(emphasis added by me)

Then if I were you, I'd stay away from epic pollen - would be deadly...

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I just went over the new "resistances" of the catastrophy dragons and the elementals... I think they are great for the dragons (I really like the expanding aura effect they have). For the elementals, in particular the fire elemental... I'm less convinced. Problem with the fire elemental (who are pretty much pure magical fire IMHO, and should be immune from fire) is that ANY damage type triggers its backlash ability, as it triggers on being attacked/hit, not by damage type.

That said, I LOVE the "vulnerabilities" on some of the elementals - the effect of thunder damage on earth elementals and cold on water elementals is really rather clever and inspired.

 

[Rechan]

Being able to produce a Flaming Sphere, or a Fireball, or even a Scorching Burst implies enough control over flame to disrupt a being created of it.

Alternatively: I'm composed of living stuff, but being bitten or clawed by another living creature can screw me up pretty badly. For that matter, even simple pollen can make me fairly uncomfortable.

A better explanation is that when you hit a match with a blowtorch, the match's fire is just taken into the blowtorch and then gone. Or that the magical fire of the wizard is displacing the pieces of the fire elemental - it's not burning the elemental, but more like "Woah my arm just got canceled out!"

Hell. In RL, firefighters use small fires to create control fires to box in forest fires.