General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, The Speed of Light and More...

[Michael Morris]

First, a disclaimer. I am not a physicist. My studies of physics are limited to a conceptual level, so any or all of what may follow could be (probably is) wrong. But it's something that's been broiling in my head for some time and I want to get it down.

Of waves and particles
The speed of light is one of those fun concepts that science fiction loves to play fast and lose with and - for the sake of a good story - ignore. After all, it's hard to have star wars when it takes 30 generations to travel a single light year.

What is light, and why is it so special? In the early 1900's there was a lot of debate as to whether light was a particle, or a wave. Einstien said light was a particle AND a wave.

Say what?

Light has the properties of both and so it must be both.

Well, actually it isn't. My theory is that light is a wave, and only a wave, but it is a wave that doesn't entirely exist within the dimensions we sense. It's momentary crossings into our reference frame (for lack of a better term) appear to us as particles.

Light therefore exists in the fourth dimension.

Wait, isn't time the 4th dimension
No. Time is a continuum, not a dimension. The difference is that a dimension can vary in value. Time is a constant, and proceeds at a set rate. It also doesn't stop, and it doesn't reverse. Movement through dimensions can do each of these - at least relatively.

Observances of time "speeding up" I believe can be borne as false due to transmissions. For instance, there is a variance of error in the GPS system since the satellites are moving so fast. It's micro and nano-seconds, but it's there. But this lag also must be from light's own travel and the atmosphere has a role as well.

Light doesn't have a constant speed - it has a constant maximum speed perhaps, but light slows down and refracts as it interacts with particles. This is observable, but it puzzles me why this isn't taken into account in any science journal I've read. Further, light seems to speed up again when the interference is removed. Again, why?

Height, Width, Length, ?, ?, ?
Three dimensions of height, width and length our the basis for our immediate observations of the world and the hypothesis there could be more gets scoffed at. And yet, I think that this is the only way to not only explain light, but also a host of other "particulate" observations.

I don't think anything exists at the smallest level. If energy and matter are indeed one and the same as implied and later proved by E=mc² then how does this transition work.

Isn't it easier just to remove matter from the equation all together? Our universe - everything we know and accept as real is the crossing point of multiple energy dimensions. Each point in the universe may or may not be occupied by matter or a host of energy types - sometimes simulataneous. Light can pass through glass. Occasionally there are collisions, but unless light exists extra-dimensionally it would be entirely stopped or changed into a particulate vibration of some sort like sound.

The higher the energy levels at a given point, the more mass it has. Existance is a matter of some points having extremely high - but stable - energy levels.

Remember though that everything - and I do mean everything is in motion. Nothing truly stands still. If my ramblings are correct - coming to a complete stop relative to the origin of the universe is impossible.

Ok.. There it is, disjointed - probably horribly wrong, but my brain wanted to spit that out for some reason. So have fun debating.

 

[Zoatebix]

Let's tackle this in bits and pieces. Maybe have one person do one aspect of one paragraph at a time. Or not. But that's what I'm prepared to do. And I'll pick an easy one.

Remember though that everything - and I do mean everything is in motion. Nothing truly stands still. If my ramblings are correct - coming to a complete stop relative to the origin of the universe is impossible.

Only there is no "relative to the origin of the universe" because for whatever reason (inlfation theory is still somewhat debatable, right?) our universe ended up isotropic and homogenous. Whether or not there is an absolute "motionless" is moot because it's utterly unobservable. There is no center to the big bang and no time before the big bang - time, space, matter, and energy all have their origins in one event.

Okay - I'll answer/question one more thingy, too.

I don't think anything exists at the smallest level. If energy and matter are indeed one and the same as implied and later proved by E=mc2 then how does this transition work.
Isn't it easier just to remove matter from the equation all together?

Well... maybe I'll only touch on the "isn't it easier" part. Quantum mechanics and General Relativity don't replace classical mechanics - they work with classical mechanics to make a larger whole. It's really only under rather extreme conditions that classical mechanics fail. Thinking of things in classical mechanical terms really is easier for the vast majority of the human experience. I and the chair I'm sitting consist of an incredibly high percentage of empty space - only the Pauli Exclusion Principle keeps me from falling through to the center of the earth. The conditions that make exclusion fail aren't going to occur anywhere near the earth until the sun stops burning hydrogen in its core, goes through some changes, and starts and stops burning helium in its core. It really is easier to think of things as objects and fluids and particles with mass.

You know what - I don't think I answered anything, but I'm going to hit "post quick reply" anyways. I guess I was just trying to show how robust our understanding of the universe really is (and how much of our understanding is... understandable! Classical Mechanics is pretty intuitive, and human intuition doesn't fail until we get really really big and really really small). I'm sure there are real scientists on EN world who will do a better job at whatever we're trying to do on this thread than fake sleepy 'science' 'students' like me.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

First, a disclaimer. I am not a physicist. My studies of physics are limited to a conceptual level, so any or all of what may follow could be (probably is) wrong. But it's something that's been broiling in my head for some time and I want to get it down.

Of waves and particles
The speed of light is one of those fun concepts that science fiction loves to play fast and lose with and - for the sake of a good story - ignore. After all, it's hard to have star wars when it takes 30 generations to travel a single light year.

What is light, and why is it so special? In the early 1900's there was a lot of debate as to whether light was a particle, or a wave. Einstien said light was a particle AND a wave.

Say what?

Light has the properties of both and so it must be both.

Well, actually it isn't. My theory is that light is a wave, and only a wave, but it is a wave that doesn't entirely exist within the dimensions we sense. It's momentary crossings into our reference frame (for lack of a better term) appear to us as particles.

Light and all other elemental particles (like electrons, quarks and so on) can be described as waves or as particle, depending on what phenomon you want to describe.
The underlying mathematical method to describe them today is not a simple wave or particle, but to use a wave package - Inifite numbers of waves with different frequencies that superposition and create a "localized" phenomen that basically shares both characteristics - wave and particle.

Light therefore exists in the fourth dimension.

Wait, isn't time the 4th dimension
No. Time is a continuum, not a dimension. The difference is that a dimension can vary in value. Time is a constant, and proceeds at a set rate. It also doesn't stop, and it doesn't reverse. Movement through dimensions can do each of these - at least relatively.

Observances of time "speeding up" I believe can be borne as false due to transmissions. For instance, there is a variance of error in the GPS system since the satellites are moving so fast. It's micro and nano-seconds, but it's there. But this lag also must be from light's own travel and the atmosphere has a role as well.

The whole theory that also describes the time as a dimension and different time scales actually is required to make GPS as accurate and precise as it is, so your theory doesn´t really work here, as far as I understand it.

Light doesn't have a constant speed - it has a constant maximum speed perhaps, but light slows down and refracts as it interacts with particles. This is observable, but it puzzles me why this isn't taken into account in any science journal I've read. Further, light seems to speed up again when the interference is removed. Again, why?

It does not "really" slow down. As far as I know, this effect is created due to the fact that light is constantly absorbed and then reemitted. This absorption/remission sequence slows it effectively down. Since we have no way to observe a single photon (light wave package), we don´t see that it´s in a way a different photon then before (albeit at the same wave length).

Height, Width, Length, ?, ?, ?
Three dimensions of height, width and length our the basis for our immediate observations of the world and the hypothesis there could be more gets scoffed at. And yet, I think that this is the only way to not only explain light, but also a host of other "particulate" observations.

I don't think anything exists at the smallest level. If energy and matter are indeed one and the same as implied and later proved by E=mc² then how does this transition work.

Isn't it easier just to remove matter from the equation all together?

In some way that is exactly what E=mc² does - it allows us to describe matter as energy. You could also write m=E/c² to elimate mass from all equations, but it´s usually easier to still use mass ...

Our universe - everything we know and accept as real is the crossing point of multiple energy dimensions. Each point in the universe may or may not be occupied by matter or a host of energy types - sometimes simulataneous. Light can pass through glass. Occasionally there are collisions, but unless light exists extra-dimensionally it would be entirely stopped or changed into a particulate vibration of some sort like sound.
See my comments about wave packages: Since they share all the traits of particles and waves, they can superimpose. Still, using all

The higher the energy levels at a given point, the more mass it has. Existance is a matter of some points having extremely high - but stable - energy levels.

Remember though that everything - and I do mean everything is in motion. Nothing truly stands still. If my ramblings are correct - coming to a complete stop relative to the origin of the universe is impossible.

The closest thing to coming to an absolute stop as you describe it is reaching a temperature of 0 Kelvin, which would indeed describe a state of no energy, which is not impossible due to several reasons. (One important thing here disallowing this is the Heisenberg´s uncertainity principle...)

 

[Morrus]

I'm no expert either, but here's what I remember from Physics lessons years ago and a smattering of more recent popular science books. I'm sure someone with some more solid knowledge will be able to correct me.

Well, actually it isn't. My theory is that light is a wave, and only a wave, but it is a wave that doesn't entirely exist within the dimensions we sense. It's momentary crossings into our reference frame (for lack of a better term) appear to us as particles.

Nah, it can be descibed as a wave or a particle depending on what bevaviour you choose to observe, but it certainly isn't a wave dippping in and out of our dimension to appear like a particle.

Light therefore exists in the fourth dimension.

Wait, isn't time the 4th dimension
No. Time is a continuum, not a dimension. The difference is that a dimension can vary in value. Time is a constant, and proceeds at a set rate. It also doesn't stop, and it doesn't reverse. Movement through dimensions can do each of these - at least relatively.

Nope, time certainly is a dimension.

Think of the universe as being plotted on a 4-d graph. The axis are length, breadth, height and time (or x,y,z, and t). Any event can be located on that graph, as long as you know all four values. It is believed that there are quite a number of other dimensions, too.

However, a "dimension" is not an "alternate universe" or a "plane". Everything in the universe exists in all possible dimensions; our visual perception is only of 3 of those dimensions, though.

Light doesn't have a constant speed - it has a constant maximum speed perhaps, but light slows down and refracts as it interacts with particles. This is observable, but it puzzles me why this isn't taken into account in any science journal I've read. Further, light seems to speed up again when the interference is removed. Again, why?

More interesting is that light has a constant speed whatever the speed of the observer. Normally, something will have a different relative speed to you depending on how fast you're moving. If you're moving at 40 MPH towards someone moving towards you at 70 MPH, the relative speed is 110 MPH. Likewise, if you are moving at 40 MPH, and someone is moving away from you at 10 MPH in the same direction, the relative speed is 30 MPH. makes sense.

However, light has the same relative speed to you however fast you are moving. Move towards a light wave at half the speed of light, or away from it and a third of the speed of light, the relative speed between you will still be the speed of light.

However, the speed at which you move does have an effect on the passage of time. The faster you go, the slower time moves.

 

[myrdden]

Holy...where to begin...

Well, actually it isn't. My theory is that light is a wave, and only a wave, but it is a wave that doesn't entirely exist within the dimensions we sense. It's momentary crossings into our reference frame (for lack of a better term) appear to us as particles.

Light therefore exists in the fourth dimension.

Mustrum pretty much has the right of it. New ideas in "string theory" are leading some to believe that all matter and wave/particles are simply virbrations of tiny (really, really tiny) strings whose vibrations along various dimensions determine it's properties. It is really bizarre stuff yet really engrossing at the same time.

But in the end, as Morrus stated, light displays the properties of a wave or a particle depending on what property you are measuring for at the time. In fact all particles can be demostrated to do this. Elementary particles, like electrons and photons, cannot be thought of in the classical sense of having a precise mass and volume. Instead they are "wave functions" which rely on probability and energy to determine the characterisitics of the particle.

Wait, isn't time the 4th dimension
No. Time is a continuum, not a dimension. The difference is that a dimension can vary in value. Time is a constant, and proceeds at a set rate. It also doesn't stop, and it doesn't reverse. Movement through dimensions can do each of these - at least relatively.

There is circumstantial evidence (and whole lot of conjecture) that our univers contains up to 11 dimensions. Where are they? Well, based upon some theorists they are incredibly small and cannot be observed with current technology directly (and perhaps even indirectly). Think of it like looking at a telephone or power cable from a large distance. From your perspective the cable has only 1 dimension. But as you get closer, you realize that it really has 2 dimesnions (2 ways in which a bug could move along it - back and forth and around the circumference.) These other dimesnions that theorists suggest are thought to be incredibly small and are completely dwarfed by the "big three" and time.

I don't think anything exists at the smallest level. If energy and matter are indeed one and the same as implied and later proved by E=mc² then how does this transition work.

Isn't it easier just to remove matter from the equation all together? Our universe - everything we know and accept as real is the crossing point of multiple energy dimensions. Each point in the universe may or may not be occupied by matter or a host of energy types - sometimes simulataneous. Light can pass through glass. Occasionally there are collisions, but unless light exists extra-dimensionally it would be entirely stopped or changed into a particulate vibration of some sort like sound.

E=mc2 is very much a reality. I encounter it frequently in my profession (radiaiton safety consultant) when dealing with nuclear transformations. Energy doesn't have dimensions - but it can have levels.

As far as light passing through glass, this is due to the fact that it does not interact with the molecules of the glass very strongly. There will be some refraction of the light (esentially bending it's pathway) but the vast majority of light will pass through unimpeded. It's been a long time since I did optics in university so my memory on the subjetc is pretty hazy.

Remember though that everything - and I do mean everything is in motion. Nothing truly stands still. If my ramblings are correct - coming to a complete stop relative to the origin of the universe is impossible.

This is as much physics as it is metaphysics. Yes therre is always relative motion between bodies but is there an absolute motion? Is there a centre of the universe? Current modern theory says "no" and really the evidence supports such a statement.

If you ever get a chance read (or watch the mini-series) "Elegant Universe" by Brian Greene. He does an excellent job is translating really advanced physics into lingo that then lay person can appreciate.

 

[Desdichado]

Light is a non-Euclidean particle that exists in a dimension that we cannot know without transcending the provincial boundaries of our paltry human understanding.

Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!

 

[Turanil]

Okay, this is the thread of inane physics, so be it:

Light's properties demonstrates that our whole universe is in nature holographic.

Why so?

Consider this: there is two identical clocks in orbit around the sun. (Okay, for the sake of hypothesis they are somewhat magical, so they can be carried away by a photon.) Suddenly one of these two clocks is caught by a photon that comes out of the sun and brought away on its long journey. Then, the photon lands on a very distant planet with its clock. At that time the two clocks stops. What happened? The first clock in still in orbit around the sun indicates 1 million year elapsed; but the clock carried by the photon at the speed of light indicate that zero seconds (no time) elapsed! Do you understand, since the photon travel at the speed of light, times doesn't pass for it. It means that he is always at time zero, and that at time zero it is everywhere on its path from sun to distant planet. So it's not the photon that travel forward in time and across space, it's the universe that is deployed around the photon, around light.

And now as said our precedent poster: Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! (easier to understand)

 

[Andre]

However, light has the same relative speed to you however fast you are moving...

However, the speed at which you move does have an effect on the passage of time. The faster you go, the slower time moves.

You know, I can't shake the feeling that the second statement explains the first. Of course, I'm not mathematician/physicist enough to figure it out. Just a hunch.

 

[Someone]

IIRC, c (the speed of light) is not quite defined as the speed of light, rather is a property of the universe. It just happens that electromagnetic waves, in a perfect vacuum, travel at c. While it´s impossible under our current understanding of the universe to travel faster than c, it´s quite possible to travel faster than light. This phenomenon causes the beautiful blue glowing around radioactive waste submerged in water, and it´s a way to detect cosmic rays entering the amtmosphere. See here for more details about Cherenkov radiation

 

[myrdden]

IIRC, c (the speed of light) is not quite defined as the speed of light, rather is a property of the universe. It just happens that electromagnetic waves, in a perfect vacuum, travel at c. While it´s impossible under our current understanding of the universe to travel faster than c, it´s quite possible to travel faster than light. This phenomenon causes the beautiful blue glowing around radioactive waste submerged in water, and it´s a way to detect cosmic rays entering the amtmosphere. See here for more details about Cherenkov radiation

Yes that is correct.