Generation: rolling vs. point buy

[ThirdWizard]

If you want some more random elements, but not those huge gaps 4d6dl often gives, check out the link to the House Rule post in my post on the first page. I've listed some methods, which should probably work just fine.

Admittedly, the card method has intrigued me since I first saw it, and I've wanted to try it ever since. I couldn't locate the method when starting the campaign, however. Now, I'll most likely try it out for the next one if I can manage to not lose it yet again.

 

[Dracomeander]

Tell me if I'm wrong but wasn't the playtested paladin built with str14 dex8 con12 int10 wis13 & cha15? Pump wis at 4th and cha thereafter. Gloves, bracers and belts were prioritized through the mid-levels.

This is the iconic presented to us so I've just assumed that the paladin's power/party contribution was based on this build?

But this is where I have trouble accepting the premise of the iconic builds. I have never considered the acquisition of stat enhancing magic items to be a part of character growth and developement. Yes they improve the power of the character, but they are a false improvement, not true growth.

I find the assumption that the characters need these enhancements to meet the challenges of mid to high levels to be a flaw. Why should these items be necessary? If the game assumes stat boosts greater than what is already written into the game are necessary, why not just increase the rate at which the stat boosts are received normally?

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

But this is where I have trouble accepting the premise of the iconic builds. I have never considered the acquisition of stat enhancing magic items to be a part of character growth and developement. Yes they improve the power of the character, but they are a false improvement, not true growth.

Well first up the iconic builds are designed to be slightly suboptimal in terms of ability placement, feat/skill selection, & magic items. The reason being that rookie players wouldn't stuff themselves too much by making poor decisions, or something like that. Next point to bear in mind is that the default higher level D&D demands magic items, no matter how powerful the initial ability rolls.
I fully agree that there is no 'real' character development beyond raw capabilities that occurs with the aquisition of magic items. However, even so, trophy items, legendary arms and self-crafted magic items can bestow prestige that highlights accomplishments.

I find the assumption that the characters need these enhancements to meet the challenges of mid to high levels to be a flaw. Why should these items be necessary? If the game assumes stat boosts greater than what is already written into the game are necessary, why not just increase the rate at which the stat boosts are received normally?

I don't think any character can do without these items to thrive in a default campaign but for lower point characters they have more meaning. To maintain the existing power curve & keep pace with say a +6 girdle of strength, +2 bracers of health, and +4 cloak of charisma, you'd need to be granting stat boosts every level.
The iconic paladin doesn't need stat boosts greater than what she gets to perform her core functions. She starts to get them as she approaches level 10(12?) just like all the other iconics. She doesn't over-rely if that is what concerns you.

When I said "prioritize" I meant prioritize over other ability boosters (although she goes full on for charisma, which only makes sense) rather than over other appropriate magic items - her armour, shield & sword are always top notch.

 

[S'mon]

In my current game I use a single 3/4d6 roll (or player can use 28 PB), optional scratch PC & reroll if total bonuses +3 or less. There's a lot of variance in the PCs but I'm trying not to run a hard-Gamist game this time & they all seem viable, and I do think the variance makes for more interesting characters. I think the more Gamist (designed to challenge the players) the game is, the better it is to use Point Buy.

 

[S'mon]

I find the assumption that the characters need these enhancements to meet the challenges of mid to high levels to be a flaw. Why should these items be necessary? If the game assumes stat boosts greater than what is already written into the game are necessary, why not just increase the rate at which the stat boosts are received normally?

I do this - +1 Inherent bonus per 2 levels, rather than +1 generic bonus per 4 levels.

 

[Dracomeander]

I don't think any character can do without these items to thrive in a default campaign but for lower point characters they have more meaning. To maintain the existing power curve & keep pace with say a +6 girdle of strength, +2 bracers of health, and +4 cloak of charisma, you'd need to be granting stat boosts every level.
The iconic paladin doesn't need stat boosts greater than what she gets to perform her core functions. She starts to get them as she approaches level 10(12?) just like all the other iconics. She doesn't over-rely if that is what concerns you.

When I said "prioritize" I meant prioritize over other ability boosters (although she goes full on for charisma, which only makes sense) rather than over other appropriate magic items - her armour, shield & sword are always top notch.

But that is just my point. I don't believe any character should be required to factor in stat boosters to 'maintain the existing power curve'. Yes, the game assumes a certain monetary value of magic item acquistion adds to the power of the characters as they advance in level. But why do cheap and easily acquired stat boosters have to figure into those calculations? There are plenty of other items that enhance the characters' ability to overcome those obstacles as they advance in level.

But that is going into a whole other topic. I've already stated my opinions on the subject of this thread in comparing point buy character generation to rolling for character generation. I can work with both, but I prefer the wild variances of rolling, both the highs and the lows.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

But why do cheap and easily acquired stat boosters have to figure into those calculations? There are plenty of other items that enhance the characters' ability to overcome those obstacles as they advance in level.

I'm not dissing your pov btw, just in case I may have sounded harsh. In fact I'd prefer D&D to not have such a heavy emphasise on magic item ownership but that's for another day.

I guess it comes down to the D&D system promoting & rewarding (by bigger net gain) the accumulation of many low powered boosters over the single big booster.

E.g. the guantlets of ogre str & a +1 sword for 6K rather than a +2 sword for 8K.

 

[Thanee]

Admittedly, the card method has intrigued me since I first saw it, and I've wanted to try it ever since. I couldn't locate the method when starting the campaign, however. Now, I'll most likely try it out for the next one if I can manage to not lose it yet again.

Step 1) Aquire some "Post It"s
Step 2) Write it down on one
Step 3) Put it into your PHB or DMG



Bye
Thanee

 

[Ravellion]

I switch around the method quite a bit. Currently, it's standard array. Last camapign, it was roll in order, then reroll one stat keep if higher, then if you wish you could switch one stat with another. This results in mages with more than 10 srength, and other "odd" stats that classes don't ordinarily have.

Campaign before that was 32point buy.

Rav

 

[kanithardm]

Usually i did a roll-it, but for my next campaign i am planning on rolling only for NPC's. Mostly due to the fact that when the paladin rolls he always ends up getting at least two 5 and unders.