Generation: rolling vs. point buy

[Kahuna Burger]

One thing I've always wondered in these discussions - do groups that roll their stats use LA? If so, why?

To expand on the question, and maybe get an answer, it seems odd to me that a group would accept a spread of +/- 10 stat points as an acceptable variance in characters, but slap a level adjustment on an assimar. (though it might be interesting to allow a wider range of racial options to the lowest rolling party member).

 

[el-remmen]

I prefer a stat draft.

 

[Rystil Arden]

To expand on the question, and maybe get an answer, it seems odd to me that a group would accept a spread of +/- 10 stat points as an acceptable variance in characters, but slap a level adjustment on an assimar. (though it might be interesting to allow a wider range of racial options to the lowest rolling party member).

One was randomised, the other is selectable. If you had no LA, a player could just play the Tarrasque or something. But that gives me a neat idea--make a table of races like the Reincarnate table, including all the standard races, plus some crappy ones like Kobold and a few of the lower LA +1 like Tiefling and Hobgoblin. Then let players choose a standard LA +0 PC race *or* roll on the table and take whatever they get. And if they get an LA +1 race, there is no LA.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

One was randomised, the other is selectable. If you had no LA, a player could just play the Tarrasque or something.

Playing with strict LA is a different question than "can you play a terrasque?" The question remains, do folks who think it's ok for one character be the equivilent of 20 point buy behind another stick with the balance implied in LA?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Playing with strict LA is a different question than "can you play a terrasque?" The question remains, do folks who think it's ok for one character be the equivilent of 20 point buy behind another stick with the balance implied in LA?

Again, one was randomised, the other is selectable. Since race is something that most players want to select (how many would accept that randomised chart I proposed?), they made a balancing system for it. Here's a good analogy for stats--

You can pick one of the following arrays of stats:

You can have 14 14 14 12 10 8 or 18 14 10 8 8 8. Then you're done.

Or you can have 16 16 14 14 12 8 or 18 14 14 12 12 8. If you pick one of these arrays, you have +1 LA.

Or you can have 16 16 16 16 14 10 or 18 16 16 14 12 10. If you pick one of these arrays, you have +2 LA.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Even at a glance, it's completely apparent that the +2 LA batch is just soooo much stronger than the first. A similar kind of difference to what KB is talking about.

Playing with strict LA is a different question than "can you play a terrasque?" The question remains, do folks who think it's ok for one character be the equivilent of 20 point buy behind another stick with the balance implied in LA?

As a DM, I would not impose a LA on a character simply because they rolled good stats. Similarly, I don't think that kind of difference between two players is a game breaker. They are more than likely going to be extremes on the range and any reasonable player that is not a munchkin would understand that is ok. Everyone knew and accepted the risks associated with rolling dice before playing the game and will reap the benefits and suffer the rewards accordingly. I wouldn't promote that kind of difference, but I would accept it.

I like to view all individual characters as group property overall. Though they all have different personalities and agendas, they must pool their resources in order to overcome challenges that they would be near-impossible to overcome alone.

In my games, the golden rule is 'Never willingly act against the interests of the party.' Breaking that rule results in expulsion from the group for both the player and character.

 

[Artoomis]

I prefer the level playing field approach, so I always prefer point-buy. We also use fixed hit points at each level rather than random.

 

[Bad Paper]

wowza, didn't expect to see this one again. I am amused that when I started this thread, I voted rolling. (still roll) but my next campaign is going to be point-buy, har. I'm thinkin 28 point buy, but ... maybe higher, I don't know.

 

[Nefrast]

We use point-buy because it's very fair as everyone starts out with the same "value" of attributes, and his highly customizable to ensure you can play the character you want (sans the "everywhere 18s überchar").

Sébastien Loise from the math department of Mc Gill, CA once did a mathematical comparison of the point-buy system and rolling methods. Sadly the paper "www.math.mcgill.ca/~loisel/dnd-stats.html" is no longer there.

He found out "that the standard PHB rolling method yields characters with an average point-buy value of 30.92312858 and a standard deviation of 7.708473537 which 75% of characters having a point-buy value in the range from 23 to 40 (inclusive). The highest probability accors at 28 points, and half the characters have a point-buy value of 30 or less".
...
"The conclusion is that the standard PHB rolling method will rarely yield really low point-value characters, and often yield characters of a point value somewhere around 31".


I think this is very interesting, and also part of the reason why our group uses the 32-point buy variant and not the 25-point one.