Generation Ships--- Can we build one now?

[MarkB]

The bigger issue is that even reproduction and the ability to get pregnant seems to depend on the influence of gravity - so the whole question of if babies can even be conceived and carried in space still needs to be tested

Gravity doesn't seem like that much of an issue compared to the other technological hurdles. Either you run the ship under constant acceleration aside from a flip-over at midpoint, or you rotate it for spin gravity.

 

[Shasarak]

And then you need to do the same to the crew and social structure onboard - in order to remain functional, a generation ship would likely need to be a totalitarian regime with exacting population controls and a flawless education system that will instruct multiple generations in every aspect of what will be needed in order to operate and maintain the vessel, followed by all the skills and expertise required to establish a colony on an unknown alien world. Successive generations won't have the luxury of being able to make any choices about their lives or career paths, because every single one of them will be needed to fulfill essential shipboard functions.

I dont know if a strict totalitarian system would work long term, maybe a Religious one like the Mormons from the Expanse would work better. It would be interesting to see what kind of morality tales they would come up with.

 

[Aeson]

I'm surprised no astronaut has pulled the " let's have sex in the name of science" bit. Has it even been discussed as a possible experiment? Are they afraid for the baby? I figure it'll have to be studied with field research. If a woman did get pregnant she'd have to return before the gestational period went too far. Reentry would be hell.

This type of project would need international support beyond that off the ISS. I'm not sure there are nations that could not provide money or resources and will be left out. As for training the crew. I agree groups dedicated to certain aspects would be needed, but make sure those groups are spread out. You don't want to lose your whole hydroponic group in one disaster. "Well, there went the gravity team when that astroid hit their housing section." You need designated survivors for everything. I'd recommend not having the captain and first officer in the same room too often. Redundancy will be key. Back up bridge on another deck. Cross training will help also. Experts are a must but a few jack of a trades will be helpful.

Has mankind reached this level of cooperation?

 

[Aeson]

I dont know if a strict totalitarian system would work long term, maybe a Religious one like the Mormons from the Expanse would work better. It would be interesting to see what kind of morality tales they would come up with.

Syfy had another show Ascension. The military ran everything. Allowing a religious group to run it would be too much to ask. If it were only Mormon then that might be different, but you see how well that worked out.

 

[Tonguez]

I'm surprised no astronaut has pulled the " let's have sex in the name of science" bit. Has it even been discussed as a possible experiment? Are they afraid for the baby? I figure it'll have to be studied with field research. If a woman did get pregnant she'd have to return before the gestational period went too far. Reentry would be hell.

Apparently the experiments have been done and famously there is a NASA video tape which is heavily censured and restricted.

Apparently only four sex positions are possible in zero-G without "mechanical assistance" another six were possible with an elastic belt and inflatable tunnel. The classic missionary position was ruled out as simply not possible due to its reliance on gravity.

 

[Hussar]

although they were pre-industrial a number of societies with specialised career linked to particular families survived on small islands around the world, so its possible that a generation ship would also be made up of various self-contained 'sections' where the families learn a particular set of specialised knowledge/skill which contribute to the ships maintenance and operation and with social mobility facilitated through the common areas.

The bigger issue is that even reproduction and the ability to get pregnant seems to depend on the influence of gravity - so the whole question of if babies can even be conceived and carried in space still needs to be tested

That’s not really a fair comparison though. Teaching someone to be a fisherman is slightly less intensive than teaching someone to maintain a fusion reactor.

The number of jobs and skills required to survive on a tropical island is less than the number of skills needed to maintain a generation ship.

And very few of those islands were truly isolated. They traded and whatnot between the islands.

 

[Shasarak]

Syfy had another show Ascension. The military ran everything.

Thats probably the best way to get the Government to pay for it.

Allowing a religious group to run it would be too much to ask. If it were only Mormon then that might be different, but you see how well that worked out.

I thought the ship was stolen before they could leave and then the Belters turned it into a Warship.

 

[Aeson]

You're correct. Think that would have happened to another religious group? LOL I was just trying to be funny.

If you hadn't seen Ascension. It was actually an experiment where they never left the ground. Yet the people inside didn't know for 50 years. Births were tightly controlled. Only certain ones were allowed to pair up and have children, and only at selected times.

 

[Nutation]

I wouldn't try it before the various technologies have stabilized (stopped improving). Otherwise, ship #2 passes ship #1 and arrives first.
Actually, that's also a way to send new supplies and parts, so maybe it's not a show-stopper.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

We could probably build something that could transport a lot of people, at immense cost of course. But it would probably not be a generation ship, because the ship its ecology or its energy source would break down far before they get anywhere. So I guess that's a No by me.

I worry that the only actually feasible generation ship might look somewhat like this:
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Or worse, like this
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The big challenge with space travel now already is how to put enough fuel aboard to get anywhere. But it gets worse when you talk generations, because you also need to ensure a steady supply of air, food, water and gravity, and an energy source that works for centuries. All the devices you need to keep this going will need replacements and spare parts. If anything breaks and you don't have what you need to repair it, it will at some point need centuries or maybe even millenia before you can even start looking for it.
How many devices do you know that you would trust to keep working for decades before they break down and need repairs? Probably none, or only simple mechanical devices.


Imagine going for one year with your car through the US. But you never go for a pit stop. You can't visit any gas stations or garages. You can't ask anyone for help. You have to fix everything that comes up yourself. If a tire is punctured? You got to have the replacement with you. If you need to fill up the tank, you have to have the fuel with you. If you want to eat something, you need to carry the food with you. Imagine what kind of "car" you would build to accomplish that.
And now imagine you want to build a convoy of 1,000 cars or a bus to carry a 1,000 people, or 10,000 people.
And now you need to scale that up for stuff like lack of air, heat/sun or gravity.


I think one thing is fairly certain though - if we ever build a generation ship, we don't need existing habitable planets anymore. We might still prefer to have them, but we can probably do without them.