Generation Ships--- Can we build one now?

[dragoner]

Take fusion power for example. Thats a pretty hard engineering problem until we solve it. And we need something like fusion to have enough energy for a 1,000 year trip.

Why stand around wringing your hands about how hard fusion power is? That would be a different thread.

It's not just fusion power is hard, because it isn't (and the state where I live is 3/4's coal powered for electrical generation)*. No, what is hard is doing the math and seeing that you would need all the combined power output of the entire Earth for the next ~14 years or so to launch it from out of our solar system. I have no doubt we'll come up with better propulsion systems, such as eventually fusion rockets, anti-matter catalyzed fusion rockets, or even a super VASIMR/MPD type combined with a field that reduces the interaction between mass and inertia on the quantum level, something wild. Nevertheless, that day isn't today.

*Fusion works, we just aren't getting enough energy back out for what goes in. However, fusion reactors to be efficient have to be much larger (football field sized), is what I have read.

 

[MarkB]

So then put forward an argument.

This isn't the room for an argument. Try down the hall.

 

[Shasarak]

This isn't the room for an argument. Try down the hall.

Smashes MarkB into the canal with a fish.

 

[Janx]

How much radiation shielding do we need?
How much water does one person need until we can recycle enough of it to not run out?
How much food does one person need until we can replace it?
How few crew do we actually need to run/maintain things?

how long can we keep sperm, eggs, gametes "fresh"?
Can we build an Iron Womb and skip the pregnancy step?
How big would this ship need to be?
How fast can we get it to fly?
How far does it need to go?

If we only needed twenty people to run things, carrying another 1,980 who sit around all day is a waste. Keep live crew + children growing/training and maybe have to only support 100 people total.

Hatch and train the rest (in batches) on arrival.

That could mean a smaller ship, lighter payload overall, compared to keeping thousands of people alive the entire time.

 

[Shasarak]

It's not just fusion power is hard, because it isn't (and the state where I live is 3/4's coal powered for electrical generation)*. No, what is hard is doing the math and seeing that you would need all the combined power output of the entire Earth for the next ~14 years or so to launch it from out of our solar system. I have no doubt we'll come up with better propulsion systems, such as eventually fusion rockets, anti-matter catalyzed fusion rockets, or even a super VASIMR/MPD type combined with a field that reduces the interaction between mass and inertia on the quantum level, something wild. Nevertheless, that day isn't today.

*Fusion works, we just aren't getting enough energy back out for what goes in. However, fusion reactors to be efficient have to be much larger (football field sized), is what I have read.

Is there any way we can increase the amount of energy that we can use on Earth? I mean we are burning trees and dinosaur juice now and on the other hand the Sun releases a million times more energy in 1 second then the earth uses in 1 year.

 

[Zardnaar]

Maybe that is true for Europe and on the other hand in the South Pacific humans were exploring fine before Magellan was born.

They were probably looking for new islands to settle. The islands can't support massive populations even in the modern era. That overly large village north of the Bombay hills is the biggest Polynesian city in the world.

I think it was Tikopia where they practiced exiling old people due to population restraints.

 

[Shasarak]

They were probably looking for new islands to settle. The islands can't support massive populations even in the modern era. That overly large village north of the Bombay hills is the biggest Polynesian city in the world.

I think it was Tikopia where they practiced exiling old people due to population restraints.

One of my Maori friends was talking about how there are basically "Pathfinders" who go out exploring kinda like in Moana. If they find something they go back to get the rest of the whanau. The idea that there are no explorers is kinda bonkers, the first people to discover the Americas were the Spanish? Yeah, nah.

 

[Zardnaar]

One of my Maori friends was talking about how there are basically "Pathfinders" who go out exploring kinda like in Moana. If they find something they go back to get the rest of the whanau. The idea that there are no explorers is kinda bonkers, the first people to discover the Americas were the Spanish? Yeah, nah.

There were definitely explorers never said there wasn't. The Vikings got to America before the Spanish the Polynesians probably got to Chile and traded for the kumara.

 

[Hussar]

Sigh.

No one said there were no explorers.

What was said was that exploration wasn't done for curiousity's sake. Exploration was always done because of a search for resources. You move your village a couple of miles every few years because you're a hunter/gatherer society and you're looking for new game and you wind up crossing most of the planet before too long.

It's not like the Vikings were just out for the heck of it. They were hunting for new lands to expand into.

 

[Zardnaar]

Sigh.

No one said there were no explorers.

What was said was that exploration wasn't done for curiousity's sake. Exploration was always done because of a search for resources. You move your village a couple of miles every few years because you're a hunter/gatherer society and you're looking for new game and you wind up crossing most of the planet before too long.

It's not like the Vikings were just out for the heck of it. They were hunting for new lands to expand into.

Some of the documented voyages were for exploration sake. Most of the time it was for new land to settle or trade with.
Ancient human migration we don't really know but it was probably food. Food was easy on the coast.
As kids we ate dinner off the rocks more than once.