Gestalt / AD&D / Differing XP Totals

[Wilphe]

I've done a search*, and no one seems to have made this suggestion, I'm not sure if I am insane or heretical but:

Has anyone tried mixing Gestalt Characters with Regular Characters?


Has anyone tried gestalting more than two classes?

Gestalt Fighter/Rogue/Wizard would seem to be close to 2E Fighter/Mage/Thief

How do/would you balance them against regualar classes?

I presume you make them level up slower, but how much slower?

50% more?

100% more?

What is the single class equivalent of a two class gestalt 10 (say Fighter/Sorcerer)?
It's more than 10, but it is certainly much less than20

What is the single class equivalent of a three class gestalt 10 (Fight/Rogue/Wizard)
It's more than 10, but it is certainly no where near 30
You'd have:
A BAB of 10
All maxed saves
d10s for hit points
8 skill points
Cast as Wizard 10
6 Fighter Feats
2 Wizard Feats

But given that you:
Have got to spread Attributes, Skill points, Feats and Equipment fairly widely if you to be good at all three - how powerful are you really?



I'm aware of the fact that F/M/Ts are something that most people are glad went away in 3E...

I'm also aware that I not 100% familiar with the concept,
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=76907

but I'm curious

I'd probably want to try this if I ever get to DM; it's just a matter of balancing...

And please don't tell me "Well PrCs make this irelevent"; I know they do in some cases, but not in all. I'm in it for the intellectual exercise.

*
Well I've done a search for "Fighter/Mage/Thief", searching for "Gestalt" made my heard hurt

PPS: I also know that Unearthed Arcana says "Don't do this this fool"; that's why I want to do it.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

My gut feeling says that Gestalt characters should be about 3/4 the level of regular characters, for a dual Gestalt. Unlike racial abilities, a good Gestalt combination just gets better and better and better as you level.

I would urge you very strongly to reconsider the triple Gestalt. It would be powerful, but manageable, as a Fighter/Rogue/Wizard. I suspect it would be ugly as a Cleric/Fighter/Wizard.

It would eat your soul as Fighter/Monk/Druid.

It only gets worse when you add non-core classes, even when those classes are balanced on their own. (I've foreseen some potential problems with plain old dual Gestalts.)

For the triple Gestalt, I would simply recommend a rotating pattern of dual Gestalt levels-- F/R at 1st for hit points and skills, R/W at 2nd, F/W at 3rd, and so on. Penalize them as a standard dual Gestalt. Yeah, their spells ain't gonna be hot, but my mind reels with the abusive synergies you can pull out of that. Maybe you could make it up to them by letting them take Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster levels-- alternating between F/AT and R/EK, once they've qualified.

 

[DulothS]

Think on this for a second. A Ranger is, essentially, a fighter/cleric/rogue. At 20th level, hes roughly equivalent to a 20th level fighter, a 7th-level cleric, and has the same skill points as a 10th-level rogue.

If you allowed triple gestalt at simple half character level, a Fighter/Cleric/Rogue would be different as follows:
Same skill ranks, much lower skill maximum.
Half the BAB.
Sneak attack and rogue abilities.
Moderately enhanced spellcasting.

If we made it at a simple half character level, and stopped it at 10th level; I.E: After being 5th level in the triple gestalt, you start gaining levels as normal; it would be as follows:
More skill ranks, somewhat lower skill maximum.
15 BAB instead of 20.
Versatile and varied selection of rogue abilities.
can cast 8th level spells; 4 higher than the ranger could normally.

The second of the two options is more balanced, but slightly too strong; but then, this character is, asode from the skills and rogue abilities, quite similar to simply a normal cleric of 20th level who sacrificed some caster levels and the ability to cast 9th-level spells for rogue abilities. Seems okay.

So, for triple-class gestalt, half level untill tenth, and then normal from then on. Or, if you were so inclined, you could simple make them 3/4ths level the whole time; perhaps by giving only the abilities of two classes at all levels not divisible by 4, staging the growth in a pattern so their never quite as good as an equal-level char at one of the abilities.

And for the regular dual-class gestalts, we have some problems; if you look at some of the PrCs, like Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, it seems as if Wizards finds a dual-classed Gestalt to be perfectly balanced, as long as you lose two or three levels worth of abilities. So, for the dual-classed gestalt, just make it so at two or three levels in its progression it only gains the benefits of one of the two classes; perhaps 1, 10, and 20 if you like, and let the PC choose which class is skipped twice and which is only skipped once. This would make such characters just slightly above-par with pre-existing PrCs.