Gestalt Characters from a DM point of View

[Dyntheos]

Running through the UA I spotted Gestalt characters. What attracted me was that my group that I am running, only has 3 players. I was running an NPC cleric for healing, but feel that Gestalt characters could be a better solution for small group play.

I am going to run Gestalt characters mainly because of the limited number of players i have, yet in doing so I can see that they will most likely be twinked within an inch of their min maxing lives. I don't necessarily have a major issue with this, but what i was looking for was advice on what to look out for when Gestalt characters are introduced to play.

Any advice / tips from people who have run a gestalt character or DM'ed one, on what I should look out for down the track that may not be obvious when a character concept is first presented?

 

[drunkmoogle]

First off... ban Fighter/Clerics. Obvious.

Second, you may want to opt with high point buy/ 5d6 drop two lowest. Gestalts (at least the interesting ones) typically suffer from MASD.

You want to stop min/maxing? If your players don't know about your plans then get a timer and allow them 15 minutes (30 if inexperienced) to generate a character using just the core stuff (picking up non-cores as they level).

Other than that, read thoroughly the UA guidelines on gestalt to make sure you keep the game fun and challenging.

 

[cidak]

I am going to run Gestalt characters mainly because of the limited number of players i have, yet in doing so I can see that they will most likely be twinked within an inch of their min maxing lives.

Hey! I resent that.

You want to stop min/maxing? If your players don't know about your plans then get a timer and allow them 15 minutes (30 if inexperienced) to generate a character using just the core stuff (picking up non-cores as they level).

Too late.

 

[Halivar]

First off... ban Fighter/Clerics. Obvious.

Not quite. One very compelling strength of gestalt classes is getting spellcasters into armor without losing a spell-caster level. A complete non-issue with clerics. In addition, remember that one character can't fight and buff at the same sime. Also, the cleric adds two more prime stats that the fighter previously didn't have to worry about. He has to be good at one and poor at the other. This is what ends up balancing most, if not all, gestalt builds (except fighter-barbarian... that would be nasty).

Second, you may want to opt with high point buy/ 5d6 drop two lowest. Gestalts (at least the interesting ones) typically suffer from MASD.

MASD? I haven't heard that one. What does it mean? I assume you're tackling the very issue I mentioned above (multiple prime stats). This is a very good counter. Part of me wants to say the challenge of spreading 6 4d6-drop-the-lowest stats across four or five prime stats is part of the fun of gestalt'ing.

You want to stop min/maxing? If your players don't know about your plans then get a timer and allow them 15 minutes (30 if inexperienced) to generate a character using just the core stuff (picking up non-cores as they level).

I think this will hurt non-min/max'ers more than min/max'ers. An accomplished min/max'er (yours truly) can cheese out a twenty-level progression in fifteen minutes, if called upon to do so...

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I think this will hurt non-min/max'ers more than min/max'ers. An accomplished min/max'er (yours truly) can cheese out a twenty-level progression in fifteen minutes, if called upon to do so...

Or, alternately, they'll just happen to fall upon something incredibly rude without even thinking about it. "He's flanked? Okay, I Power Attack for 6 with my greatsword and do...whoa. All right, this fighter-rogue stuff ROCKS!!!!"

Brad

 

[two]

I have not read the gestalt rules, but I get the gist of them, and it seems nuts not to combine a full or semi-spell-casting class with something else. Just -- nuts.

Cleric-Rogue (odd, but works in light armor).
Cleric-Barbarian (eh, not the best, but ok)
Cleric-Fighter (BAB and feats)
Sorcerer-Fighter (obvious)
Sorcerer-Rogue (obvious)
ditto wizard combos.

Throw in Paladin/Sorcerer for stupendous synergies and saves.
Paladin/Bard for some goofiness.

Druid/Fighter seems pretty sick. Druids are already sick. With boucoup feats - argh.

Something goofy like Druid/Monk might even work. Monk/Sorcerer for touch attack spells? Whatever.

All the self-buffing/good saves/escape spells/etc make no-spell casting combos like:

Barbarian/fighter, or
Fighter/rogue, or
Ranger/Fighter just seem -- very silly.

I mean come on people. Full casting levels and full bab and feats and synergies and etc.? That's the be-all end-all muchnkin power-player's dream!


** unless I completely misunderstand Gestalt rules, in which case my apologies **

 

[Halivar]

Paladin/Bard for some goofiness.

Hey man, my pali-bard is just waiting to qualify for Divine Might. Then... watch out, ye doers of not-goodness!

 

[Storminator]

I have not read the gestalt rules, but I get the gist of them, and it seems nuts not to combine a full or semi-spell-casting class with something else. Just -- nuts.

** unless I completely misunderstand Gestalt rules, in which case my apologies **

The other combos that work are Fighter-Rogue (feats + skills = yeah!), and the Fighter-Fighter. I don't know if that last one is legal, but think of the feats!

We're about to start a Gestault game (13th level), because we have 2 players. I have the Cleric-Fighter, and my wife will play the Rogue-Sorcerer. Improved Inviso... sneak attack... lots of sneak attack... I feel so pathetic with my Power Attack and Divine Might and Quickened Divine Favor.

PS

 

[Vurt]

Fighter-fighter wouldn't work, you apply the normal stacking rules for abilities and features per level. You'd just end up with a regular fighter, not a fighter with twice the feats. A fighter-barbarian would be interesting, however.

One drawback I've encountered as a DM is that generating NPCs is more work. The gestalt rules recommend that to maintain a proper balance of power, all your NPCs should be gestalt as well. This can be a lot of extra work, especially if you use tools to generate NPCs or aren't good at adding class levels to preprinted statblocks on the fly.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[MerakSpielman]

Barbarian-monk!