Gestault Powergaming

[Nifft]

The level of enforcement is stifling, and if it is needed, let indeed hear it for freedom...

"Enforcement"?

- - -

Anyway. I'd like to remind folks of some of the classics:

Paladin // Sorcerer -- Wear heavy armor and don't care about spell failure; take spells that don't have Somatic components, take Still Spell, whatever. You are mostly a melee machine with access to utility magics (like true strike and featherfall and eventually dimension door), and you will take Arcane Strike at the earliest opportunity. If you're allowed access to Spell Compendium, take wraithstrike and any other Swift spells you can, since those are effectively Still, too.

Bard // Barbarian -- What's better than Inspire Courage + Rage? Almost nothing. You will be adding damage modifiers that make other people cry. Also, your friends will benefit if they're within earshot of your manly voice. Oh, and you can cast spells during down time too.

Ranger // Wizard -- Or as I call it, the Elf. Switch to Arcane Archer when you're bored with Ranger levels, or don't -- Ranger is excellent all the way through. Take the Archery path, since you're not going to be wearing much armor.

Ranger // Psion -- Like the above, but you can wear armor. Consider also Ranger / Rogue // Psion / Elocator for extreme mobility. This one is a bit tricky, because you'll want to stagger the other side of Elocator so you don't lose manifester levels. Using Slayer here seems obvious, but Slayer may be too much of a combo-PrC to be allowed in Gestalt.

Scout // Wizard -- Similar strengths to a Ranger // Wizard, but better damage synergy -- it's easy for a Wizard to move and shoot a ray spell.


... and some new thoughts:

Warlock // Scout -- See above.

Bard // Warblade -- This build is all about Song of the White Raven, which means you can stop taking Bard levels whenever you feel you have enough daily uses of your Bardic Music. Very flexible if you do something like Warblade 20 // Bard 7 / Human Paragon 3 / Chameleon 10.

Swordsage // Psychic Warrior -- Medium BAB, but nice saves, and excellent skill set. Limited "Nova" power (relative to a Psion), but still a very nice mix of offense and defense. God, now I really want to play one of these. The flavor and mechanics are both so complementary!

Cheers, -- N

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Oh, lighten up
Here's the thing: the best DMs will acknowledge that there are different player types. Some have fun solving puzzles. Others love roleplaying. Others love being incessant munchkins. All of it is cool, and all of it is fun. It's important to tolerate all players and provide them with appropriate challenges to maximize the entertainment value of the game.

QFT.

Hell, my DM's a ruthless powergamer. We spend about half our time running away or looking for help fighting the sick, sick monsters with absurdly wrong class and ability combos. He's great at roleplaying the NPCs, though.

The thing I like about this combo (Warforged Warblade//Artificer) is that the artificer really doesn't compete with the warblade in terms of use of actions in combat. Many artificer buffs have durations such that you can put them up well in advance of combat, including goodies such as magic vestment as a first level infusion.

This is a very, very good point. Actions are scarce commodities in combat. It's generally acknowledged as being best to either have a passive secondary class *or* a class whose abilities can be used outside of combat to prepare. For the former, most of the melee classes are good like that; a rogue's sneak attack, a fighter's feats, a barbarian's rage or a paladin's holy stuff, all of those can be used with your normal routine. For the latter, any of the casting classes can be used to buff yourself, or a melee class to give some backbone to your caster.

Brad

 

[szilard]

What about Knight/Favored Soul?
- Heavy Armor, All good Saves, Weapon Specialization, Buff spells, neat Knight tricks.

Crusader/Favored Soul might be nastier.

Crusader/Bard? That could be terrifying.

-Stuart

--

My most obscene character ever (in a somewhat absurdly overpowered game):

1 Human Paragon 1/Sorcerer 1
2 Human Paragon 2/ Monk 1
3 Human Paragon 3/ Monk 2
4 Fighter 1/Sorcerer 2
5 Fighter 2/Sorcerer 3
6 Dragon Disciple 1/Sorcerer 4
7 Dragon Disciple 2/Sorcerer 5
8 Dragon Disciple 3/Sorcerer 6
9 Dragon Disciple 4/Sorcerer 7
10 Dragon Disciple 5/Sorcerer 8
11 Dragon Disciple 6/Sorcerer 9
12 Dragon Disciple 7/Sorcerer 10
13 Dragon Disciple 8/Sorcerer 11
14 Dragon Disciple 9/Sorcerer 12
15 Dragon Disciple 10/Sorcerer 13
16 Paladin 1/Sorcerer 14
17 Paladin 2/Sorcerer 15
18 Paladin 3/Sorcerer 16
19 Paladin 4/Sorcerer 17
20 Marshall 1/Sorcerer 18


Key Feats included Arcane Strike, Ascetic Mage, Power Attack, and Divine Might


-Stuart

 

[Zurai]

One of the most potent builds I've ever come up with was as follows:

Werebear 9/Warshaper 4/Warhulk 7//Monk 20

This is dubious. Even among DMs that allow Gestalt characters, there are very few who will allow you to ignore LA and ECL adjustments by taking Savage Species monster classes (or bloodlines, or other similar mechanics) on only a single side of the gestalt.

 

[Nifft]

This is dubious. Even among DMs that allow Gestalt characters, there are very few who will allow you to ignore LA and ECL adjustments by taking Savage Species monster classes (or bloodlines, or other similar mechanics) on only a single side of the gestalt.

Strongly agree.

Gestalt either punishes LA heavily (by having LA take up "both sides"), or rewards LA disproportionately (by having LA take up "one side").

Personally, I favor punishing LA heavily, because the alternative means a character with nothing but templates on "one side" will generally out-perform anyone else.

(Why is this? Because templates allow you to specialize. The benefit from a template or LA will "stack with" the benefit from a class level in a way that two class levels WILL NOT stack. For example, a Fighter 3 // Barbarian 3 will have 2 extra feats over a regular Barbarian, which could increase his attack bonus by +1 -- but any other Barbarian could have taken Weapon Focus, too. However, a Half-Dragon // Barbarian 3 has +8 Strength. His attack bonus is +4 over what a normal build could have.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[szilard]

Personally, I favor punishing LA heavily, because the alternative means a character with nothing but templates on "one side" will generally out-perform anyone else.

(Why is this? Because templates allow you to specialize. The benefit from a template or LA will "stack with" the benefit from a class level in a way that two class levels WILL NOT stack. For example, a Fighter 3 // Barbarian 3 will have 2 extra feats over a regular Barbarian, which could increase his attack bonus by +1 -- but any other Barbarian could have taken Weapon Focus, too. However, a Half-Dragon // Barbarian 3 has +8 Strength. His attack bonus is +4 over what a normal build could have.)

Cheers, -- N

I agree.

If anyone doesn't, I urge them to look at the Pixie.

-Stuart

 

[Jack Simth]

Vow of Poverty Dwarf Druid//Ninja.

The Vow of Poverty is supernatural and a feat - which is, by definition of Wild Shape, maintained in Wild Shape on both counts. With your base stats, dump Dex and Strength (you get that from Wild Shape); push Wisdom and Con (always needful). Int and Charisma are "eh" stats for the build (you can dump both without suffering overly much).

The Dwarf race nets you Darkvision, more Con, and some resistence to magic.

Ninja side gives you Sudden Strike (almost as good as Sneak Attack), and some Ki goodies (like Invisibility), and more importantly, Wisdom to AC, and a good reflex save.

The Druid sides gives you Wildshape (which is very useful - means that dumping Str and Dex doesn't matter, as you pick them up from your animal forms), a good Fort and Will save, a d8 HD, and full spellcasting (almost no Druid spells require expensive focuses or material components... just the Holly&Mistletoe [technically not something you can own as a Vow of Poverty character... but with a price line of -, you can convince most DM's to let it go] and a spell components pouch; the spells make up for the lack of specializable equipment).

The result?

A character which, from 5th, can Charge from 120 (or more, due to Longstrider) feet away and hit an opponent with four attacks with an extra +3d6+1 damage each. And (after 6th, when you pick up Natural Spell) cast spells, too ... AND has a crazy-high AC.

 

[Obrysii]

This is dubious. Even among DMs that allow Gestalt characters, there are very few who will allow you to ignore LA and ECL adjustments by taking Savage Species monster classes (or bloodlines, or other similar mechanics) on only a single side of the gestalt.

I agree. It is balanced when you are dealing with monsters that are not particularly focused on one area, such as dragons (the "bards" if you will of monsters--jack of all trades, master of none).

Werebears however feel the full benefits of Gestalt.

 

[Seeten]

Rogue 1/Ranger 1
Rogue 2/Ranger 2
Rogue 3/Ranger 3
Rogue 3 Swashbuckler 1/Scout 1 Ranger 3
finishing at

Rogue 3 Swashbuckler 17/ Ranger 3 Scout 17

Taking Swift Ambusher, Swift Hunter, and Daring Outlaw.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Knight / Fighter seems almost cliche. A Knight / Monk would be an odd combo, but with the saves and the fact that a Knight eventually dosn't fail a save on a one...