Pathfinder 2E Getting started with PF2

Kichwas

Half-breed, still living despite WotC racism
I'd agree. Foundry is really nice for PF2e, but there definitely is a bit of a learning curve to getting everything working. You have to be aware of situations where the automation will apply something that it shouldn't. An example is flanking a target to cause it to be flat-footed. If you apply the flat-footed status to the target, it will now be flat-footed to everyone even if they aren't flanking the target so you need to either manually switch off the flat-footed status when it wouldn't apply or remember to add 2 to the target's AC when someone not flanking the target attacks.
That sounds like a mods problem but I'm going to have to load up my copy and test it. I've seen it automatically apply flanking flat-footed for the people who have it, no need for us to add flat-footed onto the target.
 

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It's very easy to run Foundry on your own local machine. But one big selling point of having it on Forge is you can leave the game server up 24/7 which, as a player, is something I really appreciate. I like to look over my PC from time to time outside of the game. And if there are edits or revisions to make (hey GM can I rewrite my PC? Sure. Ok.) - I can do them outside of game time and be ready when it's time to play.

I do like having Foundry on my own local machine though - so I can mess with it and test out new mods, make test worlds, run test encounters, and spot problems. I imagine that if I had it on Forge, nothing would stop me from also having my own local copy to mess around in.
The licensing allows you to have an instance in Forge and a local install for testing purposes as long as you're the only one with access to the local install.

That sounds like a mods problem but I'm going to have to load up my copy and test it. I've seen it automatically apply flanking flat-footed for the people who have it, no need for us to add flat-footed onto the target.
I don't have an mods installed for this, it's just the default right click on the token and assign status flat-footed. If there's a mod that manages the flat-footed condition when people are flanking, I'd be interested in taking a look at it.
 

Retreater

Legend
Yeap, thats interesting to think about. I assume you could use dice to track conditions, or cards, maybe even the combat initiative tracker. Its not very complicated math wise, but its a lot to juggle at once.
It's an ordeal, honestly. I don't think the design minds at Paizo actually considered how people would play this without automation.
Let's consider just Initiative. Initiative without a VTT is honestly stupid. Each creature has its own Initiative score, which fluctuates based on delayed actions, getting knocked out during a combat, etc. Let's say I have 5 players and 6 goblins - that's ELEVEN initiative scores to track. Then I have to remember which Goblin is Goblin #1 in the order, has that goblin taken its reaction, does it have any conditions to track, etc.?

What am I doing to try to get around this? Well, I have dry erase condition cards to remind people if they're Clumsy, Enfeebled, etc., and by how much. I have dry erase clothespins that I can write "GOBLIN x#" upon, and slide it around a track at the top of my GM screen like a shuffleboard in a meat raffle.

So I'm left wondering, do I need all this stuff just to run a blasted game? Is there any way that Paizo could have made the game without all this minutiae? Why isn't there a better option out there for a fantasy RPG that is streamlined and balanced?

Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to teach a group of 6 teenagers relatively new to TTPRGS how to play this 650 page rulebook. But I'll be damned if I try to DM 5e again - I'd rather quit gaming.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
Heck, I don't know if I can even run PF2 in-person without automation. Maybe I'll find out after my in-person group's current 5e campaign ends.

Well, if you need more support you do; that was specifically addressed at people who act like remote-running is somehow harder than in-person. I can't see it, having run games significantly more complicated than PF2e in person, but I'll admit that doesn't require you to be in the same place.
 

Kichwas

Half-breed, still living despite WotC racism
I don't have an mods installed for this, it's just the default right click on the token and assign status flat-footed. If there's a mod that manages the flat-footed condition when people are flanking, I'd be interested in taking a look at it.
Yeah. We don't do that.

If we have:

X--Y--Z
- Foundry automatically gives X and Z flanking bonuses against Y. No right clicks needed. We see it in the dice roll log that it was applied.

More complex flat footed moves, like a Pistolero getting it for themselves vs a target after doing something. I would have to check. I could see it getting that wrong and needing a mod to correct it.
 

Thomas Shey

Legend
It's an ordeal, honestly. I don't think the design minds at Paizo actually considered how people would play this without automation.
Let's consider just Initiative. Initiative without a VTT is honestly stupid. Each creature has its own Initiative score, which fluctuates based on delayed actions, getting knocked out during a combat, etc. Let's say I have 5 players and 6 goblins - that's ELEVEN initiative scores to track. Then I have to remember which Goblin is Goblin #1 in the order, has that goblin taken its reaction, does it have any conditions to track, etc.?

I have to note most of that existed back in the D&D3e days when VTTs were not a thing.

What am I doing to try to get around this? Well, I have dry erase condition cards to remind people if they're Clumsy, Enfeebled, etc., and by how much. I have dry erase clothespins that I can write "GOBLIN x#" upon, and slide it around a track at the top of my GM screen like a shuffleboard in a meat raffle.

So I'm left wondering, do I need all this stuff just to run a blasted game? Is there any way that Paizo could have made the game without all this minutiae? Why isn't there a better option out there for a fantasy RPG that is streamlined and balanced?

There are simpler games, certainly. But every bit of simplification you do in a game system sacrifices something. The question always becomes "Is that sacrifice worth it?" and that can't help but be in the eye of the beholder.

Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to teach a group of 6 teenagers relatively new to TTPRGS how to play this 650 page rulebook. But I'll be damned if I try to DM 5e again - I'd rather quit gaming.

Most of that 650 page rulebook is absolutely unnecessary for any given player to know. I've been playing in PF2e campaigns for several years now, and there are parts of the book I've probably never even glanced at. The GM may need to know more of it, but even in their case they don't need to know it all up-front--if I had to memorize every spell I'd never have GMed any incarnation of D&D or its offshoots at all.
 

payn

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...
It's an ordeal, honestly. I don't think the design minds at Paizo actually considered how people would play this without automation.
Let's consider just Initiative. Initiative without a VTT is honestly stupid. Each creature has its own Initiative score, which fluctuates based on delayed actions, getting knocked out during a combat, etc. Let's say I have 5 players and 6 goblins - that's ELEVEN initiative scores to track. Then I have to remember which Goblin is Goblin #1 in the order, has that goblin taken its reaction, does it have any conditions to track, etc.?

What am I doing to try to get around this? Well, I have dry erase condition cards to remind people if they're Clumsy, Enfeebled, etc., and by how much. I have dry erase clothespins that I can write "GOBLIN x#" upon, and slide it around a track at the top of my GM screen like a shuffleboard in a meat raffle.

So I'm left wondering, do I need all this stuff just to run a blasted game? Is there any way that Paizo could have made the game without all this minutiae? Why isn't there a better option out there for a fantasy RPG that is streamlined and balanced?

Honestly, I don't know how I'm going to teach a group of 6 teenagers relatively new to TTPRGS how to play this 650 page rulebook. But I'll be damned if I try to DM 5e again - I'd rather quit gaming.
I use(d) the magnetic combat tracker product from Paizo. It works very well for all this.
 

Retreater

Legend
I use(d) the magnetic combat tracker product from Paizo. It works very well for all this.
I don't like it because it's too small to be seen at a large table, so people can't prep their actions by knowing who's "on deck." Maybe I can do something similar on a big, mounted white erase board.
 


Yeah. We don't do that.

If we have:

X--Y--Z
- Foundry automatically gives X and Z flanking bonuses against Y. No right clicks needed. We see it in the dice roll log that it was applied.

More complex flat footed moves, like a Pistolero getting it for themselves vs a target after doing something. I would have to check. I could see it getting that wrong and needing a mod to correct it.
Now you make me wonder if it does apply the modifier if a target is flanked. It didn't seem to, but I'll have to do some testing.
 

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