D&D 5E Getting the AD&D feel in 5th edition

[Anth]

I'm a little scared to add too much difficulty to the dying process, since damage rolls are often high.

I agree. Changing healing and dying is probably the easiest way to screw up the game, and I will probably change those rules both once and twice before I'm satisfied.

The first thing I tried was a rule so that instant death was at ½ max hp, but that makes the game too deadly at lower levels. Especially if I won't let the characters begin with max hp at level 1.

The second try was instant death at max hp, up to your CON, then it stopped until max hp was 2*CON, then it continued at ½ max hp.
It solved the problem with the first try, but I think it's too complicated.

The third try was an instant death save with the DC equal to the remaining damage, but that was too deadly.

The fourth try was the one I posted and I agree that it's still quite deadly.

Maybe I can come up with a fifth solution, or maybe I'll go back the second solution. But I can assure you that I won't use the Instant death rule as written in PHB.

In AD&D characters went below zero often but rarely below -10 in a single hit.

Actually in ADnD you died at -1 hp, with an optional rule that you died at -4 hp. If your character was brought to zero or less and didn't die outright he started to bleed to death and died at -10.

Even in ADnD2 you died at -1 hp, with an optional rule (that become default in DnD3) that you didn't die until you reached -10 hp.

In Rules Cyclopedia you died at zero hp, but with the optional rule that characters brought to zero or less hp had to make a death save every round or die, until helped.

I like introducing a level of exhaustion or some other penalty to characters that get taken down, though.

If a character was brought to zero or less hp and survived in ADnD he was first unconscius for 1d6 * 10 minutes, then he was hospitalized for at least a week. Not even cure spells, except for heal, could change this.
I think that we are quite nice if we only give the poor bastard at zero hp a level of exhaustion.

I really like the Schroedinger's Cat approach!

OK, then I try a fifth time:
If you are brought to exactly zero hp (no damage remaining) you are only unconscious.
If there are any damage points remaining you are dying.
Instant death as per my second try: you die if remaining damage is equal or more than max hp, up to CON, then ½ max hp then more than 2*CON.
If someone give you first aid after you become unconscious, but before your next turn, you survive.
Otherwise you must make ONE death save to survive when you get help: the DC is 1 the first round and increasing by 2 each following round up to a maximum of DC 9 at the fifth round and after.
If you take more damage that isn't instant death treat it as an extra round.

The reasoning is that if you wait with death saves until you get help it's easier to just roll one save, than to roll up to five in a row.
There can never be more than five saves, as by then you either made three saves or failed three.
And the mathematical chance to survive unaided is a little better than 55 % (DC 10), that's why a max DC of 9.
If you don't like the DC-sequence 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, you could use:
Round 1 and 2: no save (you survive automatically).
Round 3: DC 3
Round 4: DC 6
Round 5 and later: DC 9
as this is closer to the math in DnD5.

Learning spells: DC 15 is pretty hard. Would you let them add their proficiency bonus?

Nope.
Someone else suggested DC 10 for learning spells, but as I understod that was for a one time roll (as in ADnD). When you have failed you can never learn that spell).
My aproach is a little more forgiving, letting characters reroll when they level up. To compensate for this softness I raise the DC.

If you don't allow rerolls you are only allowed a reroll if you fail for all spells and you still don't have your minimun number of spells that is 4 + 2 * level for a wizard.
You could lower the DC but only allow reroll when the wizards INT increases, that was the original rule in ADnD. It wasn't until ADnD2 that you were allowed to reroll at every level.

 

[Nebulous]

<emphasis mine>
Just to touch on the bolded, for a second, That is, pretty much how combat was in B/X, BECM: namely, spells came toward the end of the your side's turn, followed only by melee attack. In 1e, then, yes, they added in tracking the casting segments, though still as in pre-AD&D, you declared what spell you wanted to cast before initiative was ever rolled. You had to "start" casting, not knowing if you'd get the spell off or not (often dependent on whether or not you'd win initiative).

But your spell came near the end of your side's turn, if not -assuming you weren't disrupted/took damage- near the end of the round, prior to the opposing side's melee attacks.

As to the "do wizards mind", it is simply accepted as part of how magic "works" in the setting. So, I'd have to say on the whole, no. If you need to get off an immediate "blast 'em" or quicky defensive spell, you have everything 3rd level or lower to use. Casting higher level magic requires a bit more effort, energy "build up", some forethought on the character's part, and thus, more time.

I would prefer it that way, that magic is so powerful it has a "buildup" and needs to be protected in order to work properly. BUT...we're firmly rooted in the 3e/4e/5e way of doing things - instant gratification! (or is that spellification?)

 

[Nebulous]

Well that is totally anathema to how I enjoy my D&D. But then, I prefer an older edition feel. It seems you [and your players] enjoy a decidedly not "1e feeling" game. And that's ok. hahaha.

I wish i liked the XP calculations, it's jsut so tedious to me, and i hate math in general. I think i've forgotten long division. I don't balance a checkbook. I just add little numbers, that's about it.

I would LOVE to see a system that grants XP in single digits that you can use to boost your character up, in addition to having the traditional D&D level system.

 

[steeldragons]

I wish i liked the XP calculations, it's jsut so tedious to me, and i hate math in general. I think i've forgotten long division. I don't balance a checkbook. I just add little numbers, that's about it.

I would LOVE to see a system that grants XP in single digits that you can use to boost your character up, in addition to having the traditional D&D level system.

Well, my initial thought is, you realize that would still require math, right? hahaha. If you havd a system that said, "For every 100 gp value of treasure or HP of creature damaged, grant 1 XP." still means you have to do do division...granted, it's just taking zeroes off, but it is division. And eventually add up the XP to determine when to level up, right?

Then I'm thinking, you could do something with just a 1:1, XP/level to adventure successfully completed, ratio. Basically, to become 2nd level, you have to succeed in 2 different adventures. Naturally it is left to the DM what constitutes "success" and how long a particular adventure takes to warrant XP. When you are 7 and want to be 8th level, you need to succeed in 8 adventures...to gain your 8 "XP's". [EDIT] Note, whole adventures, not encounters.[/EDIT]

It is, to my mind, decided "not D&D" and most certainly, for this thread's purposes, not "AD&D feeling"...but it might be a way to reintroduce an "XP" system/thinking into your games without "lots of math."

 

[Nebulous]

Well, my initial thought is, you realize that would still require math, right? hahaha. If you havd a system that said, "For every 100 gp value of treasure or HP of creature damaged, grant 1 XP." still means you have to do do division...granted, it's just taking zeroes off, but it is division. And eventually add up the XP to determine when to level up, right?

Then I'm thinking, you could do something with just a 1:1, XP/level to adventure successfully completed, ratio. Basically, to become 2nd level, you have to succeed in 2 different adventures. Naturally it is left to the DM what constitutes "success" and how long a particular adventure takes to warrant XP. When you are 7 and want to be 8th level, you need to succeed in 8 adventures...to gain your 8 "XP's". [EDIT] Note, whole adventures, not encounters.[/EDIT]

It is, to my mind, decided "not D&D" and most certainly, for this thread's purposes, not "AD&D feeling"...but it might be a way to reintroduce an "XP" system/thinking into your games without "lots of math."

I've been doing 1 adventure = 1st level, 2 for 2nd level, 3 for 3rd level, 4 for 4th level. I think at 5th i'll introduce some kind of training rules. Or not. I just like it simple. SMALL NUMBERS!

But it is not a 1e feel, that is very true, so i wont' go on about that anymore

 

[Thalionalfirin]

To continue on with the 1e feel, I'm going with re-rolling of initiative every round. Also, as someone mentioned above, actions have to be declared before initiative is rolled.

1e combat was pretty chaotic. I like that.

 

[jrowland]

Furthermore, we can play with the healing spells a little:

• A cure spell (not healing word) cast with a 3rd or 4th level slot restores 1 HD to your pool.
• A cure spell cast with a 5th or 6th level spell slot restores 2 HD to your pool.
• A cure spell cast with a 7th level or higher slot adds 3 HP to your pool.
• The Heal spell adds 4 HD to your pool.

So powerful healing magic actually cures your "wounds", but low-level healing just restores your short-term combat energy.

I am doing something similar, but for healing I think I am leaning towards making Cure Wounds a ritual that heals 1HD/spell slot level (ie 3rd level slot = 3 hd) and has an associated cost of GP (gems, rare herbs, etc. I think exponential to level though: 1st level 10gp, 2nd level - 50gp, 3rd level - 250 gp, 4th -1250gp) - in other words, a 1HD "damage" is a "light wound" and it takes a "Cure Light Wounds" ritual (level one cure wounds) to fix it. which fits thematically with AD&D. As a ritual it won't be "used up", so regular cure wounds (hp) are still available if prepared.

I'll have to double check, I was putting this together during the playtest but then put it on hold until after DMG comes out, but if IIRC, Bards e.g. do not get Ritual Casting, so while they could heal HP, would not heal HD...and warlocks can (tomelock) get Ritual Casting of any spell list and could heal HD! (the thematics of an infernal pact Tome Warlock healing your moderate wound is ... disturbing)

One last thing to consider is low level play versus high level play. Low levels are even deadlier this way and high levels are actually easier. For an AD&D feel, low level brutality is fine, but at high level, you'll need to up the direct HD damage (perhaps energy drain creatures do more HD damage), or stretch out the natural HD healing time, or up the magical HD healing cost.