GiantLands Steven Wolfe Twitter Review

[Umbran]

No, they should not be more expensive.

How many units do you have to move at $50 per unit to make a living wage?

Edit to add: In my area, living wage for a single adult, no kids, is a bit over $40K a year. So, if that product is costs nothing at all to produce, you have to move over 800 units to get by. That number drops as you have to pay for things like printing, art, and shipping.

Saying that RPGs shouldn't be more expensive is saying that folks who aren't WotC shouldn't be able to make a living in the business.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I'm not super thrilled for attacking an rpg over the price; game books should be more expensive then they are now, and those working for game companies should be paid more. I would rather judge it for legitimate issues such as editing (or lack thereof), rules, or the publisher's actions.

I give a lot of leeway for a higher priced indie product because we can’t afford large print runs. I’ve said that before. But three times what you’d expect seems a bit high.

And I have a bit of an issue with the quality issues. Not huge, but it bothers me a bit. An editor and having people play it who didn’t have anyone there to teach them would have been hugely beneficial. My understanding is Dinehart is making a revision, so credit goes there. And credit for actually producing and delivering on something.

My biggest issue with all of this is the duplicity and deceit (and lack of apology for previous bigoted comments). In the span of two days, he tweeted and posted on FB about a 5e fan wannabe OSR reviewer making a dumb statement about ODnD that never happened, and then this thread. Why? What’s the purpose for the deceit?

Professionals don’t do that. I would not be surprised to see something on a different site along the lines of “Well, I tried to have a discussion over there on ENWorld but the woke mob attacked me.” Which of course ignores the context of what’s happening here.

 

[Umbran]

I give a lot of leeway for a higher priced indie product because we can’t afford large print runs. I’ve said that before. But three times what you’d expect seems a bit high.

Yeah. To be clear, my comment is not the all games should be $130, or that Giantlands deserves to be that pricey, or the like. Just that our normal idea of the cost of books is based on large commercial print runs by big publishers, not on niche products like RPGs.

 

[Jd Smith1]

How many units do you have to move at $50 per unit to make a living wage?

I wouldn't pay $50 for an RPG product.

For that matter, not a lot of products in that price range on DrivThru. Of course, I only buy pdfs, and generally only on sale, thanks to the handy thread we have here.

 

[Umbran]

I wouldn't pay $50 for an RPG product.

Well, if you are going to pay, say, $25, the maker needs to move more like 1600 units per year to make a living wage, and that's only if producing the thing is completely free, they are working alone, and not have a family.

If you aren't even willing to pay that much, well, the lower you go, the more you are saying that, no matter how much enjoyment you get out of it, the maker shouldn't be able to make a living at making them.

For that matter, not a lot of products in that price range on DrivThru.

Yes, well, PDFs have no printing cost, and a reduced effective shipping - DriveThru does charge for its services and we can call that charge the cost of delivery.

But, the point still stands - how much we are willing to pay determines whether folks can do this as their actual living job. If you want professional quality products, you need to pay for the professional people behind the product.

All of this, is, however, an aside - it isn't about Giantlands, in particular.

 

[DarkCrisis]

The 3 core books for D&D will run you about $150 give or take. Plus more if you you want to be rules current (see latest book)

This is all 3 (smaller) books plus some extras.

 

[Retreater]

I've paid more than $130 for things I've gotten less enjoyment from than RPGs (looking at my GW shelf). The core ruleset of a game I'd want to play could be worth $130. Not saying Giantlands necessarily fits either criterion, but I wouldn't dismiss a product automatically over this price.

 

[Umbran]

The 3 core books for D&D will run you about $150 give or take.

The Core Rules Gift Set (PHB, DMG, MM, screen, box sleeve) lists for $169.95.
Currently costs $87.17 on Amazon.

 

[Cadence]

The Core Rules Gift Set (PHB, DMG, MM, screen, box sleeve) lists for $169.95.
Currently costs $87.17 on Amazon.

Which brings up how hard pricing and buying habits make it for a FLGS to be a thing too.

 

[Morrus]

After doing some investigation, I am satisfied that "infinityman" is, indeed, Giantlands owner Stephen Dinehart. Pretending to be a customer in order to trick our members is against our rules, as described here. Misleading and lying to our members is not acceptable. I will be locking this thread and editing the OP to make it clear what has happened.