Giants: How big should they be in an a Fantasy RPG?

[Ed_Laprade]

There's a rather famous drawing of norse giants from the 1910s which I think has them at a size that completely sufficient to make them giants.

Link

And they just barely make it into the Large size category for D&D.

Ah, but is she a Human or a goddess? If, as seems likely, she's a goddess, then she's probably a lot bigger than a normal Human. Bearing in mind, of course, that the gods were usually able to change their size (and often shape) at will.

 

[Celebrim]

Y'know, I specifically did not respond to you personally, because there was a rash in the last page or two on biomechanical discussion, as well as some earlier stuff here and there throughout the thread. I'm not missing the point. Nor am I responding to anything specifically that you said. I'm making my own point, perhaps as a related tangent to the discussion in general. There's really no call to get defensive.

I went looking for this 'rash in the last page or two' that bothers you so much specifically to try to understand who you were responding to and why. I didn't see it. I just went and checked again, and I still didn't see it. Everyone that I saw that mentioned size or weight specifically mentioned problems other than biomechanics. Ergo, I assumed you'd decided to tell everyone 'this is a badwrongfun discussion and you shouldn't engage in it'.

Wow, do people really care that much specifically about the size of their giants? Maybe I'm really missing something special here, but I've never really used giants. At all. I find them completely uninteresting. Making them bigger doesn't make them more interesting, it just makes them more preposterous.

Answers:

1) Yes, apparantly they do. Do you really care that much that they care?
2) Maybe. Use them and tell us how it goes.
3) If you don't use them, why does this thread interest you?

But, ok perhaps I'm spectacularly missing the point; I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Please explain what point you were trying to make when you said:

Wow, do people really care that much specifically about the size of their giants? Maybe I'm really missing something special here, but I've never really used giants. At all. I find them completely uninteresting. Making them bigger doesn't make them more interesting, it just makes them more preposterous.

Did you intend for someone to convince you your opinion of giants was wrong? I don't get it. Also, please explain what in this thread you were arguing against when you went off on this rant:

Yes, I'm well aware of the literary, folkloric and even mythological roots of giants, and hence their inclusion in the game. Given that, the only thing that seems surprising is the biophysics lectures that some of these posts produce. If the antecedents of the monster type are fairytales and mythology, then trying to calculate the mass or weight of a giant and use that to put biomechanical limitations on what you'll accept seems to be spectacularly missing the point.

Plus, the recent(ish) discovery of increasingly larger and larger dinosaurs like Argentinasuaurs, Bruhathkayosaurus, Sauroposeidon, Futalognkosaurus, or the ever elusive Amphicoelias continue to demonstrate that we're generally too conservative when coming up with these biomechanical limitations anyway. :shrug:

I mean, that could be truly said to be a point tangental to the discussion but why then present this point as if it was a refutation of something pertinent to the discussion? You seem to be the one that thinks 'bigger = more preposterous'. How so? What are you arguing against anyway? It just seemed to me you were somewhere between responding to some other thread than the one I had just read and willfully misrespresenting other peoples opinions in order to launch on your biomechanics discussion. :shrug:

 

[Desdichado]

Dude, give it a rest. You're trying to pick a fight with me when I specifically tried to deflect your obvious intentions.

I skimmed around in the thread before responding. I saw complaints about biomechanical considerations. Although I specifically disavowed responding directly to you, if you must know, your post was an example of at least one such post. But I'm not specifically responding to it. I'm not going to go find specifically which posts I saw. That's just silly. Asking me to do it is dumb.

Surely you can simply disagree with me without trying to turn it into a debate?

 

[Celebrim]

I quickly skimmed around in the thread before responding. I saw complaints that I thought were about biomechanical considerations. So I hauled out a pre-canned formulic argument without putting much thought in it, made some disparging insinuations, belittled the thread, and berated the thead posters for spectacularly missing the point. Now I must spin and deflect by saying that anyone that called me on it is being silly and dumb.

Fixed for you.

 

[Umbran]

Well, someone here won't be posting in the thread any more. Please, folks, follow Wheaton's Rule. Thanks.

 

[frankthedm]

A dungeon with, say, 16 fire giants, would need to be extremely big - all corridors are 15 feet wide, all rooms are massive.

I'll admit that in my view of giants, they are more likely to be encountered above ground unless in their own strongholds. And that brings up issues of the spot skill and encounter distance...

 

[Desdichado]

Ah, but is she a Human or a goddess? If, as seems likely, she's a goddess, then she's probably a lot bigger than a normal Human. Bearing in mind, of course, that the gods were usually able to change their size (and often shape) at will.

I've read an awful lot of Norse mythology over the years (and other mythology too) and I don't ever remember ever hearing anything about the Aesir changing their size.

Then again, exactly how big the jotunns were supposed to be is hardly very clear either. Lots of times, they're characterized as if they're more or less the same size as the gods, and lots of times they seem like super-fantastical Godzilla-sized behemoths. Context doesn't seem very helpful in pinning down an answer there.

 

[Desdichado]

Also; sorry for the quick non-topic post, but I must be spectactularly non-clued in or something. I vaguely recognize the fact that there's some guy named Will Wheaton who played a minor role in some TV show a few years back and is a gamer. But I have no idea what his rule is supposed to be.

 

[Umbran]

Also; sorry for the quick non-topic post, but I must be spectactularly non-clued in or something. I vaguely recognize the fact that there's some guy named Will Wheaton who played a minor role in some TV show a few years back and is a gamer. But I have no idea what his rule is supposed to be.

Google is your friend:

Wheaton's Law | Know Your Meme

This is exceptionally in-line with EN World's rules, so we often use it as another way of explaining them.

 

[Desdichado]

Heh. Well, except for the fact that it uses profanity, of course, which is not in line with the ENWorld rules at all. Anyway, non-topic aside over. Thanks.