Glory Domain and turning undead variant

[farscapesg1]

This may work better in the House Rules section, but I thought i would give it a shot here.

Complete Divine gives a Variant option for Turning Undead. Instead of messing with the level check and turning damage you just deal 1d6/cleric level to all undead in a 30' radius (with a Will save for half).

First, how does this compare to the standard Turning rules? It's been my experience that once you get to mid levels (6+) turning becomes almost useless since undead at that point are usually several HD above the characters. This option would allow the turning attempts to still be useful (though not as potent) at all levels.

If we were using this variant, how would the benefits of the Glory domain (+2 turning checks and +1d6 turning damage) work with this variant? Should it increase the Will save by 2 to resist being turned and add an extra 1d6 damage (2d6 at 1st, 3d6 at 2nd, etc)?

What are your opinions on the standard turning rules versus the variant ones? I know that the Divine feats help to alleviate the issue of undead turning being fairly useless at higher level by giving you another option to use the attempts on, but I would like to keep turning as a useful option at higher levels.

 

[farscapesg1]

No one?

OK, does anyone have some links to previous threads debating the usefullness of Turn Undead under the core rules?

 

[Legildur]

There was a thread about a month ago that covered this topic, but I haven't got the search function (yet!). I understand that using Google with some tight parameters (like restrictive the domain to EnWorld) can be productive.

 

[shilsen]

Complete Divine gives a Variant option for Turning Undead. Instead of messing with the level check and turning damage you just deal 1d6/cleric level to all undead in a 30' radius (with a Will save for half).

First, how does this compare to the standard Turning rules? It's been my experience that once you get to mid levels (6+) turning becomes almost useless since undead at that point are usually several HD above the characters. This option would allow the turning attempts to still be useful (though not as potent) at all levels.

I agree with your analysis, with one addition. The big advantage with the variant rule, IMO, is that it allows turning to always have some effectiveness versus undead, without making it an "all or nothing" effect as the regular turning is.

If we were using this variant, how would the benefits of the Glory domain (+2 turning checks and +1d6 turning damage) work with this variant? Should it increase the Will save by 2 to resist being turned and add an extra 1d6 damage (2d6 at 1st, 3d6 at 2nd, etc)?

That's exactly how I'd use it.

What are your opinions on the standard turning rules versus the variant ones? I know that the Divine feats help to alleviate the issue of undead turning being fairly useless at higher level by giving you another option to use the attempts on, but I would like to keep turning as a useful option at higher levels.

As mentioned above, I like the variant and am using it in both games I DM. It's worked well from 3rd level up to 9th. I expect it'll continue to do so at higher levels.

 

[farscapesg1]

Thanks for the reply Shilsen. The DM's looked it over and likes it also, if nothing else because it will speed things up. He did make one change though He doesn't think the turn resistance balances, and I think I agree. His reading of the rules says that if the creature has a Turn Resistance of 4 then it would subtract 4 from the total damage of the turning attempt. He has changed this to reducing the damage by 1d6 per point of turning resistance.

 

[shilsen]

Thanks for the reply Shilsen. The DM's looked it over and likes it also, if nothing else because it will speed things up. He did make one change though He doesn't think the turn resistance balances, and I think I agree. His reading of the rules says that if the creature has a Turn Resistance of 4 then it would subtract 4 from the total damage of the turning attempt. He has changed this to reducing the damage by 1d6 per point of turning resistance.

Sounds like a good rule. As written, turn resistance is next to useless with the variant turning system, but this should make it consistently useful.