GM-player Communication vs. Metagaming

[Loonook]

There was a Knights of the Dinner Table on this. That's a bad sign.

How far do you want me to go? Do you want me to ask every turn whether the goblin I was attacking has shapeshifted or changed location or died?

Yes, of course this must be where it leads... Is it just that I do not play with people who practice this sort of creative idiocy?

Scenario #1:
Players are about to do something awfully stupid. GM subtly informs them that their plans are taken straight from the litter-box. Players change their plans and from now they expect their GM to save them again if they are about to something dumb. GM is happy that the PCs are alive and well.

Scenario #2:
Players are about to do something awfully stupid. GM takes a moment to ponder is there any in-game solution (not too far-fetched) that could save them. However, players are in a dungeon and there aren't any NPCs to scream from horror after hearing their plan. So the players carry out their plan and a TPK occurs. Players will remember their folly and make a mental note not to repeat it. New characters everyone...

Which one is closer to your gaming style? Or your ideal game?

Ideally? Someone dies, maybe the whole party. Someone may lose a hand, some levels, a magic item, the trust of their cohort, or face to their honor.

Amazingly enough everyone still has fun, we sit around figuring out who would join this, recall stupid moments in our past, commission the dead to the Graveyard Folder for later use or abuse, have a couple drinks, and start spitballing for next game.

Maybe it is the lack of Raise, the multiple available PCs generated by each character, the ability to "take a break" from your PC and all sorts of other pressure valves...

But it has always worked.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[prosfilaes]

Yes, of course this must be where it leads... Is it just that I do not play with people who practice this sort of creative idiocy?

What sort of creative idiocy? We're talking about a scenario where the DM gave important information in a cryptic and confusing fashion, and you're penalizing the player for presuming to understand it. Why should I assume that you're going to mention salient details clearly in the future?

 

[Janx]

What sort of creative idiocy? We're talking about a scenario where the DM gave important information in a cryptic and confusing fashion, and you're penalizing the player for presuming to understand it. Why should I assume that you're going to mention salient details clearly in the future?

If nothing else, the example from my group is that the GM may have given a general description with no map, diagrams etc, and everybody THOUGHT they had enough information. The GM probably assumed that if the player needed more he would ask (ex. how far away is the next platform, I'm thinking of jumping).

So the questions is more about as a GM what do you do when such a mistake HAS happened. It's not about how you never have that mistake happen.

[MENTION=1861]Loonook[/MENTION]'s process of weeding and training out players is different than how my group runs. My group is just my friends. We don't invite or recruit outsiders. New people show up because they are our friends FIRST. As such, we have a softer policy on "you're about to make a mistake"

If I had been DMing that scene, I would have been surprised. I would have given Paul a break by saying, "Let's go over the distances and rules for Jumping then so we both know what you need to roll." That process would have revealed the next platform was 30 feet away and the PC could only jump a short distance. Paul would come to his own self-preserving conclusion and that would be it.

 

[Loonook]

What sort of creative idiocy? We're talking about a scenario where the DM gave important information in a cryptic and confusing fashion, and you're penalizing the player for presuming to understand it. Why should I assume that you're going to mention salient details clearly in the future?

There was absolutely nothing cryptic. The description was the Ewok Village. I have never seen Star Wars and I know enough to think that a treetop village may, just may, have unique issues when deciding to jump 20' that could lead to problems...

Also, [MENTION=8835]Janx[/MENTION], we do the same to friends as we do completely new people. It's just that most of our circle who have been raised on the sweet teat of fantasy fiction and our discussions about the game know that plot immunity is for suckers .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Mallus]

Well, now I share RogueAgent's puzzle - what is that way of GMing adding to the game?

I have no idea what that kind of GM is adding, but I sure as heck know what they're admitting: they don't know how to tell legitimately challenging scenarios from idiotic "gotcha" ones...

Knowing when --and when not-- to require the players to play "1000 Questions" is a vital skill for a GM to have. Or learn.

Ex:

Player enters a room with a strange idol in a tomb: require 1000 Questions.

Player attempts impossible jump while 200' above ground in teddy bear tree city: do not require 1000 Questions. Inform player of the obvious.

See how easy GM'ing can be!

 

[prosfilaes]

There was absolutely nothing cryptic. The description was the Ewok Village.

It was obviously cryptic to them, since they misunderstood. Certainly the Ewok Village brings nothing useful to my mind. If you're going to get burnt because you assume you understand what the DM said, then you always need to ask questions. And a game where you always need to ask questions about things that are obvious to your PC and should have been stated up front is no fun.

 

[The Shaman]

One of the players declares an action that indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. He hasn't actually asked about it. Presumably, at this point he doesn't realize his mental model of the situation doesn't match yours. Do you let him know? Do you point out any clarifying detail without being asked?

I'm unsure about one thing. If it's obvious that, given the action resolution mechanics, the PC has no chance of success and is jumping to his/her death - would you explicity raise that with the player?

I really think I've answered this question already.

Why are you calling Janx a liar instead of just answering the question?

Are you actually calling me a liar about my real life example? If yes, you owe me an apology or a mod owes you a visit to BanTown for insultiing behavior.

In my reply, I specifically referred to the example as "hypothetical," as in, at any table at which I've personally played.

I've been reflecting on my experience here at EN World for the past couple of months, and I came to a conclusion the other day, that EN World needs my clicks far more than I need its forums. So, with that in mind, both of you are invited to go royally yourselves.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've been reflecting on my experience here at EN World for the past couple of months, and I came to a conclusion the other day, that EN World needs my clicks far more than I need its forums. So, with that in mind, both of you are invited to go royally yourselves.

With that attitude you're overrating yourself. You know what we require in terms of civility and this isn't it. You are pretty much demanding that we give you a 3 day ban to give you a chance to cool down, your choice about whether or not you come back of course.

I hope you find enough value here to come back and enjoy the forums, but if you are just getting annoyed then maybe you do need a rest from here.