Bedrockgames
I post in the voice of Christopher Walken
Embrace it. If the pcs do something unexPected run with it.
GMing help
- Thread starter Aaziroth
- Start date
Traveon Wyvernspur
First Post
Personally I'm with everyone else that's posted in the thread. I have a rough outline of what I would "like" to see accomplished and I'll have 3-4 encounters prepped ahead of time. I make them pretty generic that way if they do something that comes out of left field I can just toss something at them whether it be an encounter or skill challenge. I look forward to the times they do the unexpected, those are what make (to me) role playing worth it! If players can constantly keep you on your toes, try to do the same to them, put them in dangerous situations, where their lives hang upon a thread. If they are blowing through an encounter and you want to make it tougher... bring in the second wave of reinforcements to make it more challenging. A few more minions (if playing 4E) or as @spinachat said make the encounters more challenging by adding more damage to the NPCs and lower their hit points, this creates the WTF effect when the characters get nailed for some crazy damage and then they think they can't bulldoze through it.
There are so many things you can do and manipulate as a DM, it is YOUR world, you are the GOD, and crazy things can happen at your whims. Don't be afraid to toss them curveballs.
There are so many things you can do and manipulate as a DM, it is YOUR world, you are the GOD, and crazy things can happen at your whims. Don't be afraid to toss them curveballs.
Ycore Rixle
First Post
I'm with everyone else too. Don't spend hours upon hours writing plot for your campaigns. You can spend a lot of time writing characters, writing motivations for those characters, writing locations, writing new spells and items and fighting styles and classes. But don't write plot; you'll inevitably be disappointed. The players get to choose their actions based on your setting; you get to build your setting based on their actions. It's a cycle.
At the table, pull out your characters and your motivations and your locations in response to what the PCs are doing. Say you designed an awesome spider's lair. But the PCs go to the bar instead of the haunted wood. Oops, you know what? Turns out that spider's lair is in the attic of the tavern after all, not the haunted wood, and the NPC the players were looking for has just been snatched up on a stew run and is being coccooned up under the eaves. In other words, move stuff around behind the scenes to use all your tools where the PCs want to go. Don't wait for the PCs to go where you want your tools to be.
As others have pointed out, it's a lot more fun for the GM this way. Well, at least for me. Because this way, I get to experience the story along with the players. I have no idea how things are going to turn out. I just have to make sure that the world is consistent - if the spider lives above the tavern, that means he always has, and it probably means that the town has a spider problem, so maybe there's a spider cult in town, and maybe that mysterious fang pendant the party found in the last dungeon is actually an artifact of this spider cult, and moreover it's an artifact they're willing to hire assassins to get back.
Keep the world consistent, but let it be written as you play, not as you prepare.
At the table, pull out your characters and your motivations and your locations in response to what the PCs are doing. Say you designed an awesome spider's lair. But the PCs go to the bar instead of the haunted wood. Oops, you know what? Turns out that spider's lair is in the attic of the tavern after all, not the haunted wood, and the NPC the players were looking for has just been snatched up on a stew run and is being coccooned up under the eaves. In other words, move stuff around behind the scenes to use all your tools where the PCs want to go. Don't wait for the PCs to go where you want your tools to be.
As others have pointed out, it's a lot more fun for the GM this way. Well, at least for me. Because this way, I get to experience the story along with the players. I have no idea how things are going to turn out. I just have to make sure that the world is consistent - if the spider lives above the tavern, that means he always has, and it probably means that the town has a spider problem, so maybe there's a spider cult in town, and maybe that mysterious fang pendant the party found in the last dungeon is actually an artifact of this spider cult, and moreover it's an artifact they're willing to hire assassins to get back.
Keep the world consistent, but let it be written as you play, not as you prepare.
Here's the way I do adventures:
look at remaining problems the PCs haven't resolved and goals the PCs want to pursue.
prepare an initiating encounter that reveals the opportunity/threat for one of those problems/goals
prepare the people and places likely to be involved with pursuit and completion of that hook.
prepare a few random encounters suitable to the region, just in case you need to spice things up.
prepare a few NPCs/sources of information/resources for topics involving pursuit of the hook. this covers the 'most obvious" way for the party to solve the problem. When they want to buy a camel to cross the desert that the hook goal is at, you are prepared with Al'Bob's Camel Dealership Emporium.
If your group is pretty much on board to bite the 1st obvious hook (like mine is), then run that as an adventure. use all your notes on people and places to figure out who is where, when the PCs need it.
If you group wants multiple hooks, then repeat that process for more hooks.
The idea is, the initiating encounter should be the most scripted part (and I use that term loosely). Everything else is you figuring out what your game entities are doing in relation to what the PCs are doing. Thats what all the notes are for.
That should mean, instead of writing conditions for Al'Bob:
if the PCs try to steal a camel, he calls the cops
if the PCs try to buy a camel, he tries to swindle them
Instead, all you need to know is Al'Bob exists, he has 10 camels, 3 are good, 2 are OK, and 5 are lemons. If the PCs seek out camels, bring in Al'Bob and roleplay what Al'Bob would do based on what the PCs do. Rather than planning out a bunch of conditional statements, play the NPC like the players would play a PC.
For bit parts, like Al'Bob, who's only job is to provide camels for the party to have a means to cross the desert, don't be afraid to recycle the concept at whatever first camel shop they go to. If the PCs do visit another to get a second opinion, then make up a new NPC and make him different than the first. You might even make him a character opposite. If you planned Al'Bob to be kind of sleazy, make Mustafa Jim be honest but less successful (fewer stock). You just invented a 2nd NPC to play the competition, with minimal work on the fly.
Anyway, thats what I would do.
look at remaining problems the PCs haven't resolved and goals the PCs want to pursue.
prepare an initiating encounter that reveals the opportunity/threat for one of those problems/goals
prepare the people and places likely to be involved with pursuit and completion of that hook.
prepare a few random encounters suitable to the region, just in case you need to spice things up.
prepare a few NPCs/sources of information/resources for topics involving pursuit of the hook. this covers the 'most obvious" way for the party to solve the problem. When they want to buy a camel to cross the desert that the hook goal is at, you are prepared with Al'Bob's Camel Dealership Emporium.
If your group is pretty much on board to bite the 1st obvious hook (like mine is), then run that as an adventure. use all your notes on people and places to figure out who is where, when the PCs need it.
If you group wants multiple hooks, then repeat that process for more hooks.
The idea is, the initiating encounter should be the most scripted part (and I use that term loosely). Everything else is you figuring out what your game entities are doing in relation to what the PCs are doing. Thats what all the notes are for.
That should mean, instead of writing conditions for Al'Bob:
if the PCs try to steal a camel, he calls the cops
if the PCs try to buy a camel, he tries to swindle them
Instead, all you need to know is Al'Bob exists, he has 10 camels, 3 are good, 2 are OK, and 5 are lemons. If the PCs seek out camels, bring in Al'Bob and roleplay what Al'Bob would do based on what the PCs do. Rather than planning out a bunch of conditional statements, play the NPC like the players would play a PC.
For bit parts, like Al'Bob, who's only job is to provide camels for the party to have a means to cross the desert, don't be afraid to recycle the concept at whatever first camel shop they go to. If the PCs do visit another to get a second opinion, then make up a new NPC and make him different than the first. You might even make him a character opposite. If you planned Al'Bob to be kind of sleazy, make Mustafa Jim be honest but less successful (fewer stock). You just invented a 2nd NPC to play the competition, with minimal work on the fly.
Anyway, thats what I would do.
mouseferatu has a good recent article about plot
So the concept of plot isn't a bad thing. making it a choke chain of 1 path to success is a bad thing.
So following my vague example:
let's say the PCs really want to find Uncle Ned, the wayward sorceror. Maybe he's just lost and hasn't been heard from in a while.
The plot hook is "an NPC reveals some information about a recent Ned sighting"
If the party pursues it, the plot is "stuff the PCs do to find Uncle Ned"
The complications are: Uncle Ned seems to have gotten it into his head that he can channel the power of the dormant volcano across the desert to re-animate his dead girlfriend. Apparently he's been dabbling in necromancy since he's been gone.
So now you know the places this plot will need: a desert and a volcano where presumably the party will find Ned. You can make it dramatic and have their arrival be on time to confront him during the ritual, or you could make it all Volcano of Dr. Moreau and have him greet them warmly, but act a bit secretive about his operations there.
You'll probably expect the party to provision themselves, so Al'Bob the camel guy and probably a guide and some suppliers.
Sprinkle in some random encounters for along the way, and you've covered the basics for an adventure to find Ned.
Once you start the game, obviously the PCs will have to decide to pursue Ned to use all this material.
From a sandbox perspective, Ned's volcano is going to blow up and nuke this town with ash in X number of days. From a narrative perspective, Ned's not doing this stuff until the party pursues the plot hook, so it really doesn't matter.
In either case, once they pursue the hook, the party MIGHT go rent some camels. Or the party might teleport. That's not really the GM's problem. He's provided 1 means, and the party is free to think of an alternative that he will adapt to. it is no big deal if the party skips some random encounters.
When the party gets to the volcano (well, if they don't die or something), play Ned like a man obsessed with something). he's distracted, but still, good old Uncle Ned. he might even SHOW the party what he's planning (after all, they're like family). With any luck, the party will figure out that this ritual is probably not safe, and try to stop it. Most likely it'll be at the alter on a ledge over the volcano. But it might also happen in the dining room, nice and safe. It's OK. it's entirely possible they simply talk Ned out of doing the ritual.
Effectively, the plot for this hook is "go find Ned and hopefully stop him from blowing up the volcano in a stupid ritual"
i don't normally use hooks that dire, as they tend to force player action (save the day or die because the day will end horribly).
You could also have made the hook reveal Ned has been held captive at the volcano by canibals whho intend to BBQ him in a ritual over its smokey lava.
Either one has a sense of built-in purpose (we like not dying in a volcanic erruption and we kind of like Uncle Ned which is why we walked all this way to find him).
I don't see whats so hard about it. But then, I only plan for about 4-6 hours of entertainment and assume the matter will be wrapped up during that time.
I expect the hook to be personally interesting to the players/PCs. Note, I chose Uncle Ned, a figure of some personal value to the PCs. i could have chosen some stupid NPC that only another NPC could love.
I do tend to expect the PCs will get involved. That's a risk in my method. But I try not to get bound up in the details of the solution. They party might fight Ned, talk to him. They might even agree that he has an excellent idea, but there's something they need to fetch from home, about 1 volcano's blast radius away.
So the concept of plot isn't a bad thing. making it a choke chain of 1 path to success is a bad thing.
So following my vague example:
let's say the PCs really want to find Uncle Ned, the wayward sorceror. Maybe he's just lost and hasn't been heard from in a while.
The plot hook is "an NPC reveals some information about a recent Ned sighting"
If the party pursues it, the plot is "stuff the PCs do to find Uncle Ned"
The complications are: Uncle Ned seems to have gotten it into his head that he can channel the power of the dormant volcano across the desert to re-animate his dead girlfriend. Apparently he's been dabbling in necromancy since he's been gone.
So now you know the places this plot will need: a desert and a volcano where presumably the party will find Ned. You can make it dramatic and have their arrival be on time to confront him during the ritual, or you could make it all Volcano of Dr. Moreau and have him greet them warmly, but act a bit secretive about his operations there.
You'll probably expect the party to provision themselves, so Al'Bob the camel guy and probably a guide and some suppliers.
Sprinkle in some random encounters for along the way, and you've covered the basics for an adventure to find Ned.
Once you start the game, obviously the PCs will have to decide to pursue Ned to use all this material.
From a sandbox perspective, Ned's volcano is going to blow up and nuke this town with ash in X number of days. From a narrative perspective, Ned's not doing this stuff until the party pursues the plot hook, so it really doesn't matter.
In either case, once they pursue the hook, the party MIGHT go rent some camels. Or the party might teleport. That's not really the GM's problem. He's provided 1 means, and the party is free to think of an alternative that he will adapt to. it is no big deal if the party skips some random encounters.
When the party gets to the volcano (well, if they don't die or something), play Ned like a man obsessed with something). he's distracted, but still, good old Uncle Ned. he might even SHOW the party what he's planning (after all, they're like family). With any luck, the party will figure out that this ritual is probably not safe, and try to stop it. Most likely it'll be at the alter on a ledge over the volcano. But it might also happen in the dining room, nice and safe. It's OK. it's entirely possible they simply talk Ned out of doing the ritual.
Effectively, the plot for this hook is "go find Ned and hopefully stop him from blowing up the volcano in a stupid ritual"
i don't normally use hooks that dire, as they tend to force player action (save the day or die because the day will end horribly).
You could also have made the hook reveal Ned has been held captive at the volcano by canibals whho intend to BBQ him in a ritual over its smokey lava.
Either one has a sense of built-in purpose (we like not dying in a volcanic erruption and we kind of like Uncle Ned which is why we walked all this way to find him).
I don't see whats so hard about it. But then, I only plan for about 4-6 hours of entertainment and assume the matter will be wrapped up during that time.
I expect the hook to be personally interesting to the players/PCs. Note, I chose Uncle Ned, a figure of some personal value to the PCs. i could have chosen some stupid NPC that only another NPC could love.
I do tend to expect the PCs will get involved. That's a risk in my method. But I try not to get bound up in the details of the solution. They party might fight Ned, talk to him. They might even agree that he has an excellent idea, but there's something they need to fetch from home, about 1 volcano's blast radius away.
D20 system, we all hate 4e... lol
Depending on the campaign, I tell my players what type of campaign I.e. heroic, wide open, evil, etc... and that their charas should fit the mood of the campaign, but they tend to make their charas the complete opposite
I have a player that knows how to break just about any class, and winds up at 3rd lvl sometimes with a chara that can't be touched by anything less than 3 or 4 or more lvls higher than he is, and even than they only scratch him, and he teats through them w/ relative ease...
I try to make my games story driven, but no matter what I do, they mess things up... ex. A group supposed to help the players and be semi-allies, from their actions they turn them into bitter enemies...
Depending on the campaign, I tell my players what type of campaign I.e. heroic, wide open, evil, etc... and that their charas should fit the mood of the campaign, but they tend to make their charas the complete opposite
I have a player that knows how to break just about any class, and winds up at 3rd lvl sometimes with a chara that can't be touched by anything less than 3 or 4 or more lvls higher than he is, and even than they only scratch him, and he teats through them w/ relative ease...
I try to make my games story driven, but no matter what I do, they mess things up... ex. A group supposed to help the players and be semi-allies, from their actions they turn them into bitter enemies...
Merkuri
Explorer
Don't think about your prep in terms of an awesome story. Think about it in terms of an awesome situation (or set of situations).
Bad prep: This adventure, the party will come upon a village where the cattle and sometimes the villagers regularly get mauled at night. The village mayor hires the party to help. The party investigates, discovers there's a werewolf at work, and eventually finds out that *gasp* the village mayor IS the werewolf! What an awesome story!
Good prep: There's a village that gets attacked by a werewolf at night, and it turns out that the werewolf is actually the village mayor, who doesn't realize he's a werewolf. What an awesome situation!
Do you see the difference? The story tries to predict what the PCs will do, therefore it can be broken by creative PCs. The situation just sets the scene and gets ready to react.
Bad prep: This adventure, the party will come upon a village where the cattle and sometimes the villagers regularly get mauled at night. The village mayor hires the party to help. The party investigates, discovers there's a werewolf at work, and eventually finds out that *gasp* the village mayor IS the werewolf! What an awesome story!
Good prep: There's a village that gets attacked by a werewolf at night, and it turns out that the werewolf is actually the village mayor, who doesn't realize he's a werewolf. What an awesome situation!
Do you see the difference? The story tries to predict what the PCs will do, therefore it can be broken by creative PCs. The situation just sets the scene and gets ready to react.
Merkuri
Explorer
Stop and think about why they're making characters like that. Most likely they're not purposely trying to make your life miserable. It could be that they enjoy a different type of game than you are presenting.
Maybe next time ask your players, "What type of campaign do you want to play?" Talk with them about what they expect out of that type of game. Make sure everyone is on the same page and excited about what's coming up before they make characters.
I try to make my games story driven, but no matter what I do, they mess things up... ex. A group supposed to help the players and be semi-allies, from their actions they turn them into bitter enemies...
See my previous post. Thinking of it in terms of a story will drive you insane. Do not do more than bare-bones planning more than a couple of sessions in advance. You can have a grand idea of where the story arc will take them over the course of the campaign, but avoid the temptation to flesh it out very far in advance, and be ready to scrap or severely modify it at a moment's notice.
If you expect your players to ally with group A and they alienate group A and side with group B instead, then start thinking about how group B can help them, and what group A can do as their enemies.
Note that I said "if you expect your players to...", not "if the players are supposed to..." If you assume that the players are supposed to do something and they don't then you're heading for a railroad. If they do something they're not "supposed" to do then you'll find yourself getting angry at your players for ruining your awesome plot.
Your job is not to give them a plot to follow. Your job is to lay out awesome situations for them to react to. You are setting scenes where they can kick butt and be challenged and think up creative solutions.
If you find you have really creative players, try coming up with sticky situations for them and DO NOT come up with a solution ahead of time. Let the players come up with the solution for you.
So many times this.
Furthermore, once they react to it, you then plan the consequences. If they help group B and oppose A, but A is the "Good guys" in this situation and B are the bad guys, let the players figure this out after attacking group A or helping group B. Let them discover what their actions have caused.
For instance. If you set up an adventure where the PCs are supposed to save a town that is in danger now, and the PCs do not bite the hook... let them find out what happened to the town, giving them the hint that 'hey that was that hook you didn't snag'. Don't rub it in their face, but let them know that the world keeps on turning without them.
Yes, it sucks when the players subvert your plan. But you know what? You did all that prep, if they bypass it, you can use it again. Don't throw it out, just reskin it as something else.
Ok sure. That character is hard to hurt and he's a monster.I have a player that knows how to break just about any class, and winds up at 3rd lvl sometimes with a chara that can't be touched by anything less than 3 or 4 or more lvls higher than he is, and even than they only scratch him, and he teats through them w/ relative ease...
Three questiosn:
1) Is he having fun?
2) Is this a challenging encounter for the other PCs? Are they also at risk, or do they also tear through it?
3) Are the other players having fun? Is the min/maxing player outshining them, or do they enjoy the encounter despite him chewing through it?
Because let me tell you, the only answers that matter are to 1 and 3. In later editions of D&D, pretty much players will tear through an encounter or it'll be a TPK. Fighting is the fun part. It's the candy, the carrot on the stick, the red meat. Don't despair that you're not challenging them - it's hard to, and monsters typically die in round 2-3 anyways. Trying to challenge them will generally result in 1) they chew through it because that's what the system was designed to do, or 2) a large number of them die.
Challenge them by things that happen outside of combat. The villain got away to face them another day. Someone stole the fighter's magic sword or the wizard's spellbook, and they have to get it back quick. They have to make a hard decision - save the village from the dragon, or stop the evil ritual - they only have time to do one.
