D&D General GM's are you bored of your combat and is it because you made it boring?

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
So like, is that a rule, that I've just done an amazing job of not seeing?
It's an obscure 1e rule, that when a flying creature is down to (1/3? 1/4? I forget the exact fraction, and personally vary it a bit by creature) of its total hit points it can no longer become or remain aloft, though if airborne at the time it can come to a safe and controlled landing.

Edit to add: this assumes the flying creature is using its own effort to fly. Flgiht by spell, device, etc. doesn't follow this rule; using these a creature can fly as long as it remains conscious.
 

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Rabulias

the Incomparably Shrewd and Clever
AD&D 1st edition Dungeon Masters Guide p.53 said:
Any winged creature which sustains damage greater than 50% of its hit points will be unable to maintain flight and must land. Any winged creature which sustains more than 75% damage will not even be able to control its fall, and will plummet to the ground. This simulates damage to the wings, as in aerial combat, the wings will be a prime point of vulnerability. Feathered wings are not as easy to damage as membranous wings, and in flight should be given an extra hit point value equal to one-half the normal hit points of the creature they support, for the purpose of figuring how much damage need be taken before the creature can no longer fly.
Just for those curious about this rule. I don't think I ever used it back in the day, so I learned something today. :)
 


I think that it was either in a Dragon Magazine or insecond edition that if a flying creature was wounded below 25% of its total HP it would crash down and take falling damage.

I used this rule a lot as I was often using flying encounters in the wilderness back in the days. Dragons were often encountered but so were manticores and chimeras were especially vulnerable to this rule. And it was a good thing as it was preventing the abuse of the flyby maneuvers that a lot of DMs are doing with their flying monsters. It forces the DM to think beyond one tactic such as the flying predator followingbthe party from afar waiting for an opportunity. It raises the tension as the palyers know the monster will either wait after a fight or might simply attack the party's rear guard when the front will be engaged.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
I think that it was either in a Dragon Magazine or insecond edition that if a flying creature was wounded below 25% of its total HP it would crash down and take falling damage.

I used this rule a lot as I was often using flying encounters in the wilderness back in the days. Dragons were often encountered but so were manticores and chimeras were especially vulnerable to this rule. And it was a good thing as it was preventing the abuse of the flyby maneuvers that a lot of DMs are doing with their flying monsters. It forces the DM to think beyond one tactic such as the flying predator followingbthe party from afar waiting for an opportunity. It raises the tension as the palyers know the monster will either wait after a fight or might simply attack the party's rear guard when the front will be engaged.
I don't think this rule is what enables seeing other tactics, though.
 

I don't think this rule is what enables seeing other tactics, though.
Yes, and no. With no such rule, it is easy to overdo the flyby attack routine without seeking to change tactics. With the rule in mind it forces a young DM to think of new tactics to use with flying creatures. For me this is standard, but when I mentioned the waiting for other monsters to attack the PC tactic in an earlier post, it was clear that it was not a common knowledge.
 

I'm going to disagree, but not fully. 5e doesn't provide robust approaches that some other games do, but that's not a failure -- it's on purpose. D&D did originally expect the GM to be a game designer, using the rules as a primer or inspiration to make their game their own. This lessened somewhat in AD&D (both editions), but still provided a system that was expected to be customized by the GM. 3.x broke away from this by providing much more player-side focused play (with clear, expected rules for almost everything), which caused it's own set of issues because they didn't address the fundamental assumptions of GM designed play and just forced a single, main approach. 4e, interestingly, was as player-sided as 3.x, but did fix a lot of the fundamental issues, so it worked better (if you grokked the fundamental changes, which the designers did a poor job of explaining until much later in the 4e cycle). 5e has reversed course, and is back to providing a toolkit for the GM to, ultimately, design their own game. So, combat is very much an area that 5e expects the GM to do the work to tailor it to their table, and we agree here. Where we disagree is on this being poor design. I don't think it is -- it's very intentional and part of why I think D&D maintains it's overwhelming market share.

Here I'm going to disagree hard with you because you are under the mistaken impression that player sided vs DM sided is a zero sum game.

3.X is player sided and anti-DM. This is because 3.X RAW tells the DM to use the same rules the players do. A good example here is feats. Being able to browse through the rulebook and pick two or three feats to add colour and mechanics is superb for many players. On the other hand having to pick two or three feats out of the 1500 or so available for every minor monster is tooth-grindingly fiddly and obnoxious. As is the hard coding of spells rather than doing what you want.

4e is player sided and DM sided. There were slightly more feats available by the end of 4e than by 3.5 and far more customisation available. But a fundamental difference here is that 4e DMs are not told to follow the same rules as 4e players. The two roles are considered very different so what you do is different. As a DM in 4e I am actively significantly more empowered than I am in 5e; I can do whatever I like in both games - but I have better tools and fewer constraints to do it. If I want to be a game designer in 4e I can be - the only key difference is that the baseline is much higher so if my game design is crap it will stand out like a sore thumb.

5e on the other hand isn't as player facing as 3.X - but it's less DM facing than oD&D, AD&D 1e, or 4e. If I want to run the game by the intended rules and just design my own monsters 4e is so vastly superior in its benchmarks it is silly. If I want to customise areas or create house rules there is no fundamental difference in doing so.

And if I want combat straight out of the books then in 5e I get bullet sponge enemies, minimised tactics, and a much less swingy game but with combats that are little different in length to other WotC editions.

You still haven't explained why it is a good thing that the DM, in addition to running the world, running the NPCs, and playing the adversaries in combat is also supposed to be a game designer when they laid out probably $150 on a supposedly functional game. Some DMs like to be game designers but not all do. So those that don't like to but have all the other skills required are close to locked out.

And there is a good reason that every single 4e game I have played has at least 50% of the players ready, willing, and able to DM. 5e isn't in my experience quite back to the dark old days of 3.X where groups fell apart because no one would or could DM. But the load is higher on the DM and the tools are worse while the 4e DM has IME significantly more power because they can decide how spells will work rather than these being hard coded by the rules and with a pretty set paradigm.

They do different things, and I don't think you can have the flexibility and strong vision story of D&D with one of those combat engines.

You say "strong vision story", I say "railroading". And flexibility is something we'll have to disagree on. But yes, I agree that if you want a linear story directed by The Storyteller and in which the stakes are defeat or victory then the post-Forge games like Fate Core, Apocalypse World, or Blades in the Dark aren't good. But when the stakes of combat are laid down in advance (as they are in this style of play) then the slow combat that lacks tactical depth because positioning is of minimal importance, and that lacks danger because hit points don't inspire death spirals does not help.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I'd forogtten it was as harsh as 50%. I've always used a lower fraction.

But the general idea remains. :)

Its a cool idea, would be simple to add to certain monster statblocks with the old "blooded" 4e concept. @dave2008 for some of his monster concepts.

Manticore (Example)

Wounded Wing: If a manticore has 34 or less hitpoints, it loses its fly speed. At the end of its next turn, if the creature is still in the air, it falls.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
3.X is player sided and anti-DM. This is because 3.X RAW tells the DM to use the same rules the players do. A good example here is feats. Being able to browse through the rulebook and pick two or three feats to add colour and mechanics is superb for many players. On the other hand having to pick two or three feats out of the 1500 or so available for every minor monster is tooth-grindingly fiddly and obnoxious. As is the hard coding of spells rather than doing what you want.
The concept of NPCs using the same rules as PCs isn't anti-DM at all.

The 3e system makes it anti-DM by overcomplicating everything, but that's a system problem rather than a conceptual one.

4e is player sided and DM sided. There were slightly more feats available by the end of 4e than by 3.5 and far more customisation available. But a fundamental difference here is that 4e DMs are not told to follow the same rules as 4e players.
Which is fine if you don't care about internal setting consistency, or about players like me who look at an NPC's funky ability and ask "Why can't my just-as-competent-in-every-way PC do that?", or about DMs like me who think what's good for the goose is good for the gander and thus if a PC can do it an equally-qualified NPC can do it right back.

Having everyone work on the same foundation was something 3e got 100% right. Making that foundation stupidly complicated, however, was not.

And if I want combat straight out of the books then in 5e I get bullet sponge enemies, minimised tactics, and a much less swingy game but with combats that are little different in length to other WotC editions.
There's tons of very simple ways to make it both swingier and faster (though it won't be RAW any more): put save-or-dies back in, reduce everyone's hit points, add in more combat options that bypass hit points, de-nerf various combat spells, etc.

You still haven't explained why it is a good thing that the DM, in addition to running the world, running the NPCs, and playing the adversaries in combat is also supposed to be a game designer when they laid out probably $150 on a supposedly functional game.
However, ironically enough, you just did: while many people seem to find 5e runs great for them, you just pointed out a list of issues you have with it ("bullet-sponge, enemies, minimised tactics, etc.) that the designers ain't gonna fix for you; you have to fix 'em yourself.

Some DMs like to be game designers but not all do. So those that don't like to but have all the other skills required are close to locked out.
They're not locked out at all - nothing's stopping them from running the game as written.

And if the game as written doesn't satisfy them they have two options: find a game that does, or - and far easier - kitbash the game to suit their and their tables' specific tastes and desires.
 

Stalker0

Legend
The concept of NPCs using the same rules as PCs isn't anti-DM at all.

Maybe not anti-DM but certainly DM limiting. The simple truth is... PCs and NPCs don't serve the same purpose, so if your using the same toolbox for both, one or the other is going to be hindered by a less optimal toolset.

Removing that gives the DMs a lot more freedom to craft NPCs that fit the story and the situation...without having to worry if its fits any kind of rules consistency.
 

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